I think it’s also our responsibility to make sure that it doesn’t capsize.
3 Likes
It’d be a damn shame. So much military infrastructure, gone.
IIRC correctly Guam has a delegate to the house. Would it really get that dire?
If correct, would be a non-voting delegate, like PR.
I wonder what those people even do?
1 Like
The big distinction is that we can sell unincorporated territories to other countries or spin them off to form their own countries with a minimum of fuss, and the Constitution doesn’t necessarily apply in such territories.
Congress has legislated that citizens of all of the unincorporated territories except American Samoa are US citizens, but they got this status from legislation, not common law or the 14th Amendment. (American Samoa is excepted because of concerns that granting American citizenship would invite questions over whether their traditional land ownership system could survive American laws, and the rights/privileges that accompany citizenship.)
So it’s correct to say that Guamanians are Americans, but not necessarily correct to say that Guam is part of America.
(The “incorporated” vs “unincorporated” teritory distinction has become less relevant today, now that almost all incorporated territories have reached statehood. We still have one incorporated territory, however: Palmyra Island. It was incorporated into the US as part of Hawaii, but for some reason, it was excluded when Hawaii was made a state.)
They get to speak on the House floor, and participate in committees.
I posted this article on Guam about two months ago in a different thread: am also gifting it here as it is quite interesting and relevant to this discussion.
The non-voting delegate from the USVI has had some very prominent committee roles and given a few speeches that made there way onto the various pundit shows.
1 Like
[quote="Maphistos_Sidekick, post:4906, topic:689]
the Constitution doesn’t necessarily apply in such territories
[/quote]
Huh? Territories are not states, so rights given to the states do not apply to territories, but I wouldn’t say that the Constitution doesn’t apply. Guamanians have the same freedom of speech and religion and right to bear arms and right to a trial by jury as the rest of us, even though Guam doesn’t get Senators or electoral votes and their Representative doesn’t vote.
They don’t pay federal income taxes, don’t participate in Social Security or Medicare, and they can’t be drafted. But they can voluntarily serve in the military, they enjoy the protection of the US military (and the hassles and benefits of hosting a disproportionate share of military bases), they travel with US passports and are natural born citizens eligible to serve as POTUS. If they move to one of the 50 states they can register to vote in Presidential (and all) elections.
I was sloppy in my phrasing.
In the Insular Cases at the start of the 20th century, SCOTUS held that full constitutional rights do not automatically extend to unincorporated territories. The Insular Cases are actually the reason that we recognize a difference between “incorporated” and “unincorporated” territories (again, largely moot since OK, NM, AZ, AK, and HI gained statehood).
That’s the reason that Guamanians are citizens due to an act of Congress rather than via the 14th Amendment…and why American Samoans are not citizens unless they naturalize.
Mind you, the Insular Cases were not among SCOTUS’ proudest moments…
1 Like
Yeah, I was reading up on how American Samoans are not citizens. That’s pretty crazy. I think they ought to be citizens / enjoy the rights therein. But I am admittedly not familiar with the property issues you mentioned.
As I understand it, the stumbling block is:
- in American Samoa, local government is via the traditional semi-feudal system of chiefs
- land is owned in common by extended families / communities
- you have to be at least 50% Samoan to participate in land ownership
For reasons not clear to me, it is believed that if American Samoa is brought more into the US system (including birthright citizenship), all three of those things will not survive legal challenges.
1 Like
This territorial discussion thread drift is a fascinating addition to TIL. 
2 Likes
House GOP members are preparing a motion to expel Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., amid his renewed threat to pursue a motion to vacate House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.
During an appearance on CNN Sunday morning, Gaetz said he planned “to file a motion to vacate against Speaker McCarthy this week.”
It takes a two-thirds vote to expel. And Republicans are treading on thin ice with their majority. The House is down to 433 members. It’s unclear where things stand with federally indicted Rep. George Santos, R-N.Y. If you were to have members expelled, retire or die, the majority could be right on the edge for the GOP.
2 Likes
That doesn’t seem to be a reason to expel someone from The House. Is there some illegal thing he is doing by bringing this up?
Now, trafficking children, sure.
Basically they want to fast track the ethics report on Gaetz, and assume that that gives reason to expel him. As they need 2/3 of the House, they need to cut a deal with the Democrats, wonder what they will ask for.
Huh. Guess he never thought they’d play dirty like that.
Meanwhile, that replacement for Obamacare is still due in two weeks, and the check from Mexico to pay for the wall is in the mail.
2 Likes
So standard Trump stuff. Kill the families of terrorists, shoot citizens dead, shoot undocumented immigrants dead, punch his political rivals (which he’ll pay your legal bills, LOL), have the police rough up suspects (if they’re Democrats).
New QAnon conspiracy dropped, discovered it on Reddit first: Conspiracy theories about FEMA’s Oct. 4 emergency alert test spread online | AP News
The general vibe (being a conspiracy it’s all over the place): The government is sending a radio signal that has the potential to kill COVID vaccinated people and do (things?) to unvaccinated people.
To protect yourself, power down your home for the duration, wrap your cell phone in foil, and avoid sources of artificial light because the Democrats have weaponized light.