Thats my conclusion as well.
Its pretty clear at this point. The hostages are a secondary consideration now.
Iâm not sure sure the hostages are the end game anymore. This seemed to quickly have turned into two groups looking to annihilate each other, backed by an outraged populace on both sides plusâŚreligion.
This is no longer about palestinians being justified in their actions, or israel being justified in their actions - and at this point people claiming that are just biased. This is nothing less than two bloodthirsty groups trying to wipe each other out.
There seems to be only two end results here. Israel continues unabated and we have one of the worldâs worst large scale atrocityâs over the next few months and thenâŚ? Or the US forces Israel to stop for a period of time and thenâŚ? What a mess.
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The hostages are the main reason for all this. Israel is a small country and it literally is someoneâs kid, or wife, or grandmother, thatâs being held there.
There has to be a long term solution and I donât know what it is. Iâd say economic development for Gaza, but Israel kicked out settlers that had built large farms, left those large farms for the Gazans, nothing good happened. Israel started letting in Gazans to work in Israel, got some terrorist attacks there and got tired of that. I still think economic development is the right answer, but clearly, Gaza will not stop themselves from attacking Israel, so Israelâs got to maintain closer control.
It would be nice if some of the big-talking Arab countries would take in some of their fellow Muslims, but they know themselves how likely their fellow Muslims are terrorists. Instead of just dropping some supplies on the beach.
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Quite from npr article:
Settler violence aimed at Palestinians has surged and reached record levels there in the weeks since the war between Israel and Hamas broke out, according to the United Nations and several rights groups. Scores of Palestinians have been killed in the West Bank and more than a dozen Palestinian communities have fled in fear of attack in the last month alone, which is almost twice as many as last year. Yesh Din, an Israeli human rights group, says 90% of attacks are closed without an indictment being filed.
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You donât know shit about my family and what trauma I/they have experienced.
Hereâs a couple of questions for you
- Your daughter is being held by two individuals in a large apartment building. Would you blow up the entire apartment building slaughtering all the residents in the hope your daughter is being held in the basement?
- Your daughter is held in a closet. You donât know which closet or which apartment. You go into the first apartment with an axe. You slaughter everyone, babies to the elderly. Chop. Chop. You check the closets no daughter. How many apartments would you go through in the hope of finding your daughter?
I personally do not support the slaughter of the innocent in the hope of avenging or recouping my loss.
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So, if there has been no hostages taken, and just 1400 people murdered, Israel wouldnât have invaded Gaza?
Itâs retribution. We can vary in whether we think thatâs justified, but see it for what it is.
If there were no hostages taken, Israelâs response would have been different, absolutely. Actions matter.
I have a bridge to sell to you in NYCâŚif you honestly believe that.
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Your scenario 2 is not happening. Hereâs a variation on scenario 1: Thereâs an apartment building who recently voted for a terrorist group to lead them. This terrorist group has now kidnapped your daughter and is holding them in the basement. In the meantime, they are also allowing rockets to be blasted off the porches at all times, in the direction of your home. You only have a few people with which to rescue her. If you invade, youâll probably be killed. Do you warn the residents to leave and then bomb the building?
So youâre getting to the point where youâre making up hypothetical scenarios to make a point.
You are projecting now.
You have a propensity to try to deflect questions.
Stay on topic or donât comment.
Its really not difficult.
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Extremists in Israel:
Smotrich (Finance Minister)
Ben-Gvir (Security Minister)
Avi Dichter (Agriculture Minister)
The first two have been convicted of crimes.
In Israel, they promote extremists into the cabinet.
Care to revise your previous statement about extremists being laughed at and ridiculed in âgoodâ countries?
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Here is yet another data point in regards to how extremists have a lot of places in the Israeli Cabinet.
These folks are the ones driving the current situation. Bibi goes along with it in order to keep himself in power.
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Do you mean no one on this site, or like no one on the UN Security Council?
Israel is probably holding back a bit to not accidentally bomb too many hostages. Without hostages there would likely be more dead Gazans.
So, sure, the hostages have impacted the way Israel is fighting.
But the idea that Israel is only attacking because of hostages is laughable.
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Whatâs laughable is the twisted logic which you are using, which ignores obvious cause and effect, and assumes people have devious motives instead of the glaringly obvious ones.
I mean, câmon. This is an absurd comparison.
Retribution is glaring obvious.
A few weeks ago I was posting, in this thread, that it was reasonable for Israel to seek to remove hamas from power.
Israelâs actions since then have been unclear if thatâs really their objective.
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Perhaps what you meant was on this site, and then it is absurd. However, the point I am making is there are nations who have been silent about Ukraine and very vocal about Gaza. Iran, in particular arms both Russia and Hamas.
I edited a post to remove profanity directed at another poster. I realize emotions run hot on this topic, but letâs keep it civil.
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