I’ve always been biased against NA beer because it’s NA but I do like regular Sam Adams so this is an interesting suggestion, will have to make a point to try NA Sam Adams…
Lets take a moment to remind people to post in this thread in a very serious and supportive nature. This is not a NAT thread- people are really putting themselves out there by posting their substance abuse stories.
I also want to clarify that AA isnt just about getting sober. It promotes an entire lifestyle and mindset change to convert a person from being a burden on society to being a productive member of it. I like what it has to offer, but personally I dont get behind the full message. It is too extreme for me and I dont think their one size fits all approach is appropriate for me own life.
also, I prefer to say people are struggling with addiction. And those people either currently using, recovering, or fully recovered. The path to full recovery (and this is highly subjective) is >2 years. I am almost at 2 years and I would consider myself recovering still. Addict is a pretty harsh word to describe some one as (especially when they are in recovery).
Addiction is real. I can tell very easily when talking to people who really understands that.
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I don’ think there is such a thing. As an addict, one could be sober for a month, a year, a decade or more. But one slip up can begin the downward spiral again; just one. So he can’t be fully recovered.
It’s just that he has managed it to the point where he can get through life without the cravings, and the triggers have less, even no, effect on those triggers. Which can explain how recovering alcoholics can sometimes hang out in a bar for a while with no negative consequences.
I also don’t like the concept of a “full recovery”, its unattainability notwithstanding. It’s actually discouraging to think of the goal as “full recovery”, because most people suffering from addiction are turned off by the concept.
Most people, addicts or not, want to have the option of enjoying something on occasion. Saying “you can NEVER do this ever again in your life” is quite a turn off, even if your intention is to quit.
I’ve seen AA work wonders, but I know it’s not for everyone. A lot of it depends on the attitude of the members of your local chapter. Some groups are strict, black letter law folks. Follow the Big Book verbatim or you’ll never get better. You can only hang out with immediate family only if they aren’t drinkers, or totally sober people. It can get cultish.
Some groups are more lax with the rules, and it’s pretty much a ‘no drinking club.’ I think the most successful ones are in the middle. Keep everyone accountable, but don’t get all drill sergeant about it.
I know there are alternative therapies. But many of those focus on the drinker, and there is less a sense of community. In AA, people learn from others mistakes and teach others with their own failings and successes.
Like LuckHat mentioned and I think I have, too, sobriety is not merely not using. It is indeed a lifestyle. Manage triggers and resentments. Put yourself in environments to avoid those. Surround yourself with supportive people.
An addict who is serious about recovery will know, without a doubt, they can NEVER use again without sliding back into addiction.
It’s not simply let me get clean for a while becasue I can use again then just get back in the program and get clean again. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Relapses are expected but not encouraged.
Sure there are therapies that allow alcoholics the occasional drink, but I don’t think there have been widespread studies to see the relapse rate. And again, those are usually between the user and the therapist and not group efforts.
I would be very scared of any therapy that told me that something I’m addicted to and thus enjoy on at least some level, is going to kill me, but after a while I can go ahead and enjoy it just a little. What’s stopping me from enjoying it a little more, then a little more still?
Well, I’m seeing this from the opposite direction.
I don’t think an addict will want to be serious about recovery if they think the goal is that they can never use again, because they know that’s impossible.
The goal, even if it’s an illusion, is to decrease frequency enough that you basically quit for life, unknowingly.
Say you go from using every day, to once a month, to once a year, to once every 5 years… to eventually once every 10-20 years (ie, quitting for life). That’s a lot more reasonable than telling someone who’s using everyday that their goal is to never use it ever again.
What’s your definition of “addict”
A person who’s able to do what I said can absolutely be an addict.
I’d again refer to a person with an addiction, not an addict.
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I tried to be conscious of this, but typing an entire phrase each time is too tedious when I’m trying to write a paragraph. I need an acronym or something. PSFA maybe (person suffering from addiction)
Addition isn’t something that is enjoyable to a person (though they may think they feel good while doing it). It is a compulsion. That is not to say that alcoholics crave booze every second of every day; they don’t have a flask on them or a bottle in their desk at all times.
An alcoholic drinks for several reasons: avoid dealing with life’s ups and downs, mask their resentments and emotions. And others.
For the most part, they don’t drink for the pleasant feeling of “the buzz,” or use alcohol as an occasional social lubricant. The body uses it as a shield. After a while, the body needs that shield. But it devolves into addiction, compulsion. As soon as there is a trigger (it could be any of a multitude of things: work deadline, bills that are due, someone getting emotionally close, even some guy cutting them off on the freeway), the body looks for that shield. And the person seeks out that shield to avoid dealing with the issue. And, then, after a while, the body gets so used to that shield, it seeks it out even when not faced with an obstacle.
You cannot use the prospect of being allowed to get high or drunk on occasion as a carrot to lead a healthier lifestyle.
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Have you ever known, up close, anyone who went through addition and the slow, arduous task of getting and remaining clean?
Full disclosure:
I used to be a heavy drinker. 5, 6, 7 days a week at least one or two, but mostly 6 or 7.
I took the CAGE test and failed. Went to counseling. Through the sessions we worked out why I was drinking. Part of it was a case of FOMO. What would happen if that one day I didn’t go to the bar, that one special lady was there and I missed out on it? Or, what if I missed an epic game, unable to share the experience with my buddies?
Another issue was my gambling. What’s the fun of gambling alone? All my betting compatriots were at the bar, so there I was, too.
I eventually got tired of that lifestyle and decided to take some stock. Went to counseling and learned to deal with some of my issues. Drinking was leading to some poor decisions. Largely cut out drinking for a while, having cocktails only at special events, maybe once or twice a month.
I’ll tell you what. I lost weight. Slept better. Had more money in my pocket. Made gains in the gym. Didn’t drive drunk. Had better hygiene. Felt better at work.
Nowadays, I’ll have a couple of drinks (not 6 or 7 or 12) a couple of times a week. My wife and I do Scrabble Tuesdays where we have a few glasses of wine and charcuterie. And we usually held to the local brew pub for one or two on Thursday or Friday. That’s about it these days. Int he summer, there may be a barbeque or something. This past weekend, I went to the Jets game and had a few beers.
But it’s nothing like the old days.
To give you an idea, this was my weekday routine:
After work, I took the train home. Had to switch at a particular station and wait for another train. Then I would take a bus home (it ran right past my house at the time).
So, after the first stop, headed into the local bar to meet my buddy and we had a draught. Went next door and bought 2 24 oz beers for the train ride home. After disembarking the train, went to the bar and had another beer whilst waiting for the bus. The, when the bus got there, popped into the store and grabbed a 16 oz’er for the bus ride. More often than not, I’d take the bus two stops past my house and went to the local bar and have three or four (sometimes more) with the fellas. Went home, made some dinner and maybe had one or two whilst playing video games or watching TV.
Not a great or healthy lifestyle.
And that’s not even how I got exposed to AA. A friend of mine got into some trouble, got probation. He was drunk when he showed up for his evaluation. They said go to counseling or go back to jail. He obviously took the counseling. Part of the requirement was that he do AA. He reluctantly went, but he asked me to tag along. I reluctantly did so.
In the program, he realized that he is indeed an alcoholic, and he got more and more involved in his sobriety. But I had been going to a bunch of meetings with him and even saw some of our friends in the meetings.
I even took part in some of the meetings, trying to apply some of the teachings in my life. And it worked.
I’ve avoided the big triggers like going to bars during the week. I stopped sports and most casino gambling.
AA didn’t save my life like it saved my friend’s, but it certainly improved my life. I can recognize triggers and resentments and I deal with them in a healthy way.
On the topic of quitting for good versus cutting back, it’s harder to commit to quit for good, but imo it’s easier to execute on in a way.
If you’re cutting back or quitting for now, you need to constantly decide if now is when you can start again, a mental dance that gives your urge to use a voice.
If you quit for good it’s a simpler one time choice.
A harm reduction approach can still have value for people who aren’t ready to stop, but if you’re open to stopping imo it’s a better long term approach.
The only disappointment I have is I didn’t lose any weight, but I was pretty small to start with so that’s ok.
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How’s it going?
It took me two years to go from “this is out of hand”, to stopping.
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What I think I can control before I start drinking and what I actually can control once I start are two very different things. I can’t leave moderation up to buzzed or drunk me, because buzzed and drunk me is not a trustworthy partner. So for me, sobriety/abstinence is the only option. And I do not consider myself an alcoholic.
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