Yeah, you are almost definitely missing it, or sheltered. I was in a meeting in the past month and someone told a women who leads a multi-billion dollar organization she needed to smile more.
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Am woman, can confirm. Most of the men making these jokes are “nice guys” who would be offended to be told their comments are sexist or misogynistic. And, they are nice guys. I like them. They don’t mean to be hurtful. But they are.
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I will say I’ve learned that not seeing sexism < > it’s not alive and well.
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A lot of that percentage is serial marriers/divorcers.
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There’s certainly misogyny, but there’s also just rude people who happen to be the opposite gender, especially from more senior people. Granted, more senior people are usually white male.
My ex skip-level boss once used a very derogatory tone to describe to the team how I raised a question to her. If the genders were switched I’m sure people would say that’s misogyny, but not when she’s the female and I’m the male.
I know. That was just part of my calculation.
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I didn’t say sexism doesn’t exist. I just said I’ve never witnessed someone say something so sexist to a woman in a meeting. I am surprised to hear that it’s so prevalent in the places you guys work for. The companies I’ve worked for have primarily been small-medium in size, have many women in senior level management, and if there was a whiff of that kind of bullcrappery going on, I guarantee everyone would be aware of it and the rep of that person would be tarnished. Perhaps I’ve just worked for progressive places, but dudes who would talk like that about a woman would not be there long.
i am aware of the tiniest of micro aggressions, and they seldom happen anymore. These poeple are trying to gaslight you and it’s pretty insidious
If you get the opportunity, ask them how frequently they notice little jokes/comments from colleagues and clients.
Again, so much goes unnoticed by men. Trust what women are saying is true about their experiences.
You, sir, are exceptional.
I’ll admit there’s a lot of stuff I don’t notice, especially if the target lets it roll off her back, until it’s pointed out to me. Also pointed out to me was what Serena said about not making a deal out of something so as not to appear emotional or overly sensitive, meaning weak or unable to handle things.
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I’ve had conversations. Some of the older ones understandably have had experiences and I do believe them. Others are closer to my age and haven’t had those things occur, and if they did, those sorts of things were not accepted by the rest of the company. I’m not saying that these things don’t happen. I’m just saying that the places I’ve worked would come down hard on that type of behavior. “Get me coffee. Haha” “Smile more”, etc would not fly. One dude did tell someone they shouldn’t look that good at work. He didn’t have a job there by the end of the day. If you work for a place that would let that sort of thing slide, I wouldn’t work there anymore ASAP. That’s all I’m saying.
I’ve worked at a huge international firm, a medium sized regional firm and a small firm (which I now own).
Doesn’t happen at my company. But frequently happens at client meetings. If I walked away from every client where some idiot made a dumbass sexist comment, I’d starve.
I would bet my last dollar it happens just as frequently for women you work with (assuming they interact with clients and colleagues outside their immediate working circle) and you simply don’t notice.
That’s about the 16th time I’ve (and/or you’ve) made that point though 
My prior company was the vast majority of my career so far and everyone was in our working circle to some extent. And I am an extroverted actuary and have a relationship with just about every employee, especially the actuaries. You make a good point about working with people in other companies. I can see that possibly happening. My current company I joined during the pandemic and thus don’t know people outside of my department, for the most part. Our department is pretty evenly split and we’re a close nit group. Admittedly, I don’t know what other departments are like, but that would never happen in this department. But meeting with other companies we work with, I haven’t witnessed it, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.
This conversation will go nowhere.
Women do things that men don’t notice.
Men do things that women don’t notice.
And there’s no way for either gender to understand each other’s point of view because we can never experience what the other gender experiences.
That’s the conclusion of this thread.
/end
yeah, i’m conceding this thread. I take back every stupid comment I made
Uh, Chris Rock wasn’t making fun of the Smiths’ marriage. I think they’ve endured a lot of jokes about that. Including that night, IIRC. Making fun of a woman’s medical hair loss is pretty radically different from a decision that she/they have made.
I agree that their open marriage is, IMO, fair game for jokes. Her hair loss is not. Especially given that she’s described it as “terrifying”.
I mean, I don’t Twitter at all so I certainly don’t follow Jada Pinkett Smith on Twitter. But she has tweeted about it, Instagrammed about it, there’s been articles about it in People and Billboard… it’s not exactly something she’s kept secret.
And Chris Rock produced a documentary about how black women’s (or maybe all black people’s?) identity is tied to their hairstyle.
It’s difficult to see his comment as anything other than “punching down” as someone else described it. Both in that he is making fun of someone with a medical condition that he does not have and also in that he is a bigger star than Jada Pinkett Smith.
No it’s cringey enough when sports fouls are described as rape. And while it is possible to make funny jokes about just about anything, extreme care should be taken on sensitive topics.
I went to a play where there was a very funny scene about a woman attempting to commit suicide. Any description wouldn’t do it justice, but it really was very funny. The Onion had a hysterical “article” about 9/11. But that’s extremely rare and the more sensitive the topic, the more careful you have to be to strike just exactly the right tone, IMO. And crucially, in neither case were the victims being made fun of. That’s just not funny.
I don’t think i disagree with anything you wrote.
Nonetheless, he still may not have know about her alopecia.
In addition to all the things you mention, it simply is not a very funny joke. If she purposefully chose to wear her hair like that, then it still isn’t very funny. But maybe then it is also inoffensive to most people and gives the camera a chance to focus on the smiths for a moment. That may have been all he was trying to do.
As to the obvious question of whether he should have known about her alopecia, or should have know she might have it: i don’t really know how to answer that.
Chris Rock should take lessons from Anthony Jeselnik and never, ever apologize for a joke:
