We all know that was intended as an insult.
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Hamas killed and kidnapped more people in one day than 50 years of basque nationalism.
Also, Imo “personal experience” with terrorism does not make people more rational about it.
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No. That is wildly incorrect.
This is the part you probably do not understand.
A few decades ago the Spanish Govt decided that they were going to eliminate ETA, but via extrajudicial means (i.e. assasinations and just outright killings)
They had a group operating inside the Govt that actively sought out “ETA members” in order to torture them for information and kill them (in order to try to wipe them all out).
Does this sound familiar?
What ended up happening is that they killed a whole bunch of people. Some were terrorists, and some were just innocent bystanders.
So what ended up happening eventually is that they never got rid of ETA. They just created a new generation of terrorists and killed a whole bunch of innocent people in the process. Huge scandal ensued when this was revealed eventually by the press.
GAL (paramilitary group) - Wikipedia(Grupos%20Antiterroristas%20de%20Liberaci%C3%B3n,principal%20Basque%20separatist%20militant%20group.
The IRA and the British SIS had the same problems. Lots of targeted “assasinations” that never solved the problem. You just end up with a lot of innocent bystanders killed. This then fuels further violence.
It just doesn’t work.
Your link mentions 27 dead and 26 injured over a roughly 4 year span.
While atrocious, how do you think that compares with the number of dead and injured Israelis in the first 4 hours of the Hamas attack?
I don’t want to see dead innocent Palestinians, but there are no good options here.
I mean, the fact that violence begets violence is pretty well established.
I don’t think you need personal experience with terrorism to appreciate that fact.
And I don’t think your experience is anywhere reflective of the absolute clusterfuck that is Jihadism and Zionism.
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We are talking about the Government actively targeting and killing people domestically.
Thats like the US Govt actively killing Americans inside the US because of their sympathies.
That would be a huge political scandal.
This is where we disagree.
When you have lost a family member to terrorism (this is not me) it changes the calculus of how you view things.
I have met people who lost family members to ETA and the IRA, and their the levels of anger are off the charts.
Thats the main issue here.
The more people that die because of terrorism, the higher the amount of people who feel that “loss”. That is precisely what fuels the “anger” to respond.
In Canada, that is a sentiment that is basically non-existent (hence my comment on the other thread).
In the US, you do have people who lost people to terrorism. Same with Spain and the UK.
Thats why “Israel killing more people in Gaza” results in worse outcomes. Many more families will lose loved ones, and a portion of those people will not forget this. They will be looking for revenge.
What history has taught us is that you cannot continue down this path. The “eye for an eye” mentality results only in perpetual conflict.
Yes, it certainly would be. I’m just saying that it’s not really analogous to the Hamas /Israel situation.
Sredni was trying to make the argument that experiencing terrorism (and its screwed up responses) doesn’t matter vs not experiencing terrorism, when it comes to forming an educated opinion.
My response is that: “it does matter”.
People are way more sensitive to these issues if they experience terrorist activities in their daily lives (which Canada obviously does not).
Israel/Hamas is no different.
The only difference between this situation and Spain/ETA and IRA/UK is simply number of people affected. Thats what makes it much harder to solve (too many people have lost loved ones in the conflict so they do not want to compromise).
Sredni; Hamas killed and kidnapped more people in one day than in 50 years of Basque separatism.
Poly: That is wildly incorrect. Here’s a link.
[Link shows vastly fewer people dead and kidnapped in the Basque movement than the Israel / Hamas conflict.]
Sredni: I don’t think your experience with Basque separatism is comparable to the clusterf*** that is Jihadism and Zionism.
Literally no one disputes that it’s natural / normal / common to hate someone who killed your family member. So if that’s the only point you’re making, you’re arguing against a straw man.
Sredni is using the latest Hamas attack (which by all definitions is extreme) to drive his “opinion”.
Thats what I have an issue with.
Before this latest attack the terrorism situation was comparable vs UK/Spain in terms of lives lost.
So again, if Israel wants to level Gaza because Hamas killed 1,000+ of their citizens they can choose to do so. My opinion certainly won’t make any difference there.
The US made the exact same determination after 9/11. They lashed out because 3,000+ died and millions died in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Its important here to ask: where these responses effective? Is the US safer now?
My point is that you need to be surgical when you respond to terrorism. I understand it is hard when you have lots of angry people in the population due to many deaths, but the other side of this is basically “lets destroy the enemy with lots of collateral damage”.
It does not end well. Plenty of examples in the US, Spain, UK etc..
OK, back to the thread topic, please.
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Trump refers to those imprisioned for their actions on J6 as “hostages”
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I hadn’t heard this one before:
This report is on top of the old report that Dan Quayle pushed Pence hard to do his duty when Pence was wavering
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Yikes
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“Trump won’t uphold the constitution. Keep your 2A rights and vote democrat.”
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Yikes is right!. This is the legal argument the Trump team is making. Now consider:
- Every Republican office holder, candidate, and voter that votes for or supports Trump is specifically not supporting the Constitution.
- Every single issue voter is saying the issue is more important than the constitution.
- Every local Republican candidate that does not denounce Trump as the head of the party is not supporting the constitution.
The republican party and all the conservative media supporters are officially an anti-constitutional party due to this legal argument. Big Yikes!
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many of whom (not a ton, but some for sure like pillow man) thought he would re-ascend to the role in august 2021 for some deep seated constitutional reasons. so those folks can’t be shaken.
desantis blasted trump weeks ago with some form of “all his ideas for 2nd term are things he couldn’t get done in his 1st term when he had both house and senate. plus revenge tour. what makes you think he’ll do any of it now?” liberal tears must be delicious i guess
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I have said many times that Pence did the bare minimum and should not be propped up as a hero, as some here keep wanting to do.
The more we find out about how he nearly didn’t do the most basic aspect of his his job, the more pathetic and spineless he becomes.
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