Trump caught telling the truth.
Yeah I think troops are definitely needed back for withdrawal. Between the fact that the Taliban now occupies the government buildings literal miles from the airport and the fact that Afghan civilians are/would mass the airfield you need US military to keep things from becoming even crazier.
Primarily because the buck stops with the POTUS I do think Biden owns blame for that. I do think he was misled by generals who believed the Taliban would meet more significant resistance which led to the slow withdrawal of US diplomats, US civilians, Afghan allies, etc. But it could be a lot worse right now with guns firing, Biden is basically just lucky that isnât happening.
My husband heard an interesting interview on NPR with an American woman who has been helping Afghan women make and sell crafts for the international market. Sheâs been in and out of Afghanistan and taking with a lot of women. She quoted then saying something like, âthe government forces attacked us during the day, and the Taliban at nightâ, suggesting that for a lot of the women she works with, the new government isnât going to be much shittier than what they had before.
I also read another WaPo article about trying to rain troops, where some guy who was supposed to mentor local military leaders said âthe first guy was dismissed for raping a man. His replacement was murdered by his troops.â
It sounds like the army the US had been supporting was a total f***-up.
So, have all our politicians been lying to us (well, at least Trump and Biden) or has our military intelligence been incredibly shitty?
I think the Taliban leadership arenât stupid, and donât want to do anything that would create a lot of pressure for foreigners (and especially foreign troops) to stay in the country. Itâs very much in their interest to let US, Canadian, etc. diplomats evacuate.
The chaos we see is what they canât control, but they are almost certainly âon our sideâ in getting everyone out.
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The other thing is that whatâs happening in Afghanistan seems entirely predictable. Did anyone expect anything else?
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Yes, apparently both Biden and Trump predicted the government would hold on to most of all of the country. At least, thatâs what they both said publicly.
(Biden is executing on a deal that Trump made.)
I guess at the time of the invasion of 2001 people were pretty confident given how fast the gulf war was. But I believe it started getting pretty obvious after a few years in. And we were also transitioning from the 90s where the US was numero uno in just about anything.
You saw an opportunity here, take the popular thread and pivot from toilets to Afghanistan. Bravo, well played.
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That seems like wishful thinking. I mean, werenât the generals saying that the Afghan troops were NOT ready?
As Colin Powell said in his autobiography: if the guy on the ground overseas is saying one thing and the guy at a desk in the Pentagon is saying something different⌠you always assume the guy on the ground is right and the guy at the Pentagon is wrong. Doesnât matter the subject⌠just a universal truth.
Yeah, but that was really confusing. So Iâve moved the relevant posts to the appropriate thread.
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Clearly the generals were still optimistic, even a week ago they were making forecasts on how quickly the Taliban would advance that have proven to be optimistic. Iâm pretty sure Bidenâs âzero chanceâ line is based on guidance from the Pentagon.
The Afghan military for all intents and purposes just didnât fight. They either just gave up or were willing to be bought/negotiated out. Not that I could personally blame the individuals, Iâd probably do the same thing.
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While weâre all thinking about this, can we shred the AUMF from 2001?
Shout out to Barbara Lee for noting in 2001 that the AUMF would give presidents carte blanche to bomb the ME forever.
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I still donât understand why we just didnât buy out the Taliban. Seems to be what China will do in the near future.
I do hear they have a bridge for sale
all the time estimates for how long it might take were built on the assumption that the trained govt military would resist. but that resistance - which would have been possibly a long hard slog and ultimately a losing one anyway - likely requires the solid morale that comes with actually getting paid. the taliban seemed to have it super easy - we will pay you and dismiss you, just get out the way!
so the intelligence was terrible in building on something so obvious. were they trained? sure. could they fight? sure. were they interested? nope.
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China has the little advantage of not having hunted and killed the Tailban for the past 20 years. Things like that seem to create trust issues.
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If the Taliban cut a deal with NATO and other western nations to allow anyone out that wants out in the next few weeks how many of these political refugees would you be willing to take into America?
iDK is Afghanistan a shithole country or a beacon of virtue like Norway?
But it seems like the right thing to do is take as many who want to come.
I wouldnât mind taking anyone who wanted to come but then again Iâm a pro open border with Mexico type of person.
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Things that are simultaneously true:
- Getting out of Afghanistan after almost 20 years is the right thing to do
- Whenever we left, as long as the Taliban was still in existence and capable of fighting there was going to be a humanitarian crisis when we left
- We botched leaving Afghanistan and should have had a hell of a lot better plan than âweâre outta here, youâre on your ownâ
- Everyone involved with discussions on what to do with Afghanistan over the last 4 administration is to blame for whatâs going on right now
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