He claims that he bet on the Reds every single day. (But not necessarily the same amount every single day.) AFAIK there has been no credible evidence inconsistent with this assertion. (I have not made this the topic of a doctoral dissertation or anything but I am from Cincinnati where this was and remains a VERY BIG DEAL.)
I agree that what he did was not and should not be allowed. I just think it was not as bad as what other people do who get far more lenient penalties.
And certainly as a player he belongs in the HOF. He has more hits than every single guy in there! 50% more than all but 31 of the 273 major league players in the Hall. (Granted, some of them are pitchers, but stillā¦)
we will have to disagree on that.
also gambling is one thing that has been expressly forbidden in sports and everyone knows it.
also, those in deep debt can be controlled.
no question his stats deserve admission, as does Joe Jackson, and i have no issue with HOF admission.
Agree with Patience here. Betting in any way on your own sport while still involved in the sport canāt be tolerated. His lifetime ban from involvement in the game was fully deserved.
He 100% belongs in the Hall of Fame. I can understand punishing him and hurting his potential earnings (not able to sell autographs as a Hall of Famer) while alive, but I think he should be inducted next year.
What about his sexual invovlement with a minor? Does that disqualify him, or is no character issue relevant to HOF inclusion?
I understand it has the potential to affect the integrity of the game. But still does doping, which comes with far milder penalties.
I believe Rose and the 1919 White Sox should all be allowed to be considered by the Veterans Committee.
I donāt believe any PED users are HOF banned, even if banned from Baseball
This I believe is the list. Except for the most recent, I would be ok if the Veterans Committee was allowed to consider them all. They can decide if the offense is great enough
| Individual | Offense | Year banned |
|---|---|---|
| George Bechtel | Conspiring to lose | 1876 |
| Bill Craver, Jim Devil, George Hall, Al Nichols | Conspiring to lose | 1877 |
| Joseph Creamer | Bribing officials | 1908 |
| Jack OāConnor, Harry Howell | Fixing AL batting title | 1910 |
| Horace Fogel | Claiming NL and umpires were fixing pennant race | 1912 |
| Gene Paulette | Associating with gamblers | 1920 |
| Shoeless Joe Jackson, Eddie Cicotte, Claude Lefty William, Buck Weaver, Arnold Chick Gandil, Fred McMullen, Charles Swede Risberg, Oscar Happy Felsch | Members of the Black Sox accused of throwing 1919 World Series | 1921 |
| Joe Gedeon | Meeting with gamblers in Black Sox scandal | 1921 |
| Eugene Paulette | Associating with gamblers | 1921 |
| Benny Kauff | Selling stolen cars | 1921 |
| Lee Magee | Conspiring to lose games | 1921 |
| Shufflin Phil Douglas | Wrote letter threatening to leave Cardinals | 1922 |
| Jimmy OāConnell, Cozy Dolan | Offering Heinie Sand money to throw game | 1924 |
| Pete Rose | Betting on baseball | 1989 |
| Mickey Callaway | Claims of sexual harassment | 2021 |
| Tucupita Marcano | Betting on baseball | 2024 |
I removed Roberto Alomar, who was already in HOF, as well as a few scouts, umpires and executives. Callaway was a player and Marcano are fairly recent, and could have their bans lifted, but neither are on any oneās HOF list
Shufflin Phil Douglass seemed to get screwed.
doesnāt seem Lifetime worthy, probably just got forgotten in history
I started going to baseball games in Montreal when Rose was in prime. As a Red Sox fan, the 75 World Series was first big thing and Rose was in middle and he was a top villain. Went to several games when he played for Phillies in Montreal and during period that he played for Expos and got 4,000th hit. He didnāt hit home runs, but he ran to first after a walk and ran from first to third as hard as anyone, diving in head first. That slide was something everyone wanted to see. He broke the rules and knew the consequences. At the same time, I believe they changed the HoF eligibility AFTER he was banned. Jackson didnāt get voted in or selected but could have been. Rose wasnāt given chance. It would have been better to see what the writers and the veteran committee thought but that was taken out of their hands. The last 35 years rarely got above sad which is tough. The hits record, like strikeouts will never be broken.
Hahaha, yep, that he did. Home runs too.
The wiki entry has more detail than the table. It sounds like he was offering STL a chance to pay him off to not pitch for the Giants. I donāt know if that was lifetime ban worthy but it does seem a bit sketchy.
Was the villain in '73 as well.
the 1919 White Sox were banned, there was no chance for HoF. Jackson could not get in. Many debate if he even understood, as his stats in the series were good.
Rose was given a chance, I remember him being offered a chance for contrition, for Gamblers Anonymous and he refused. Iāll look it up, but the ban was very much due to Roseās stubbornness
RIP Ray Fosse
He should have placed his bets through his interpreterā¦
Checked. The HoF ineligibility was an unwritten agreement, until 1991, when the HoF agreed not to induct banned players as a rule.
So, my problem is he never really admitted fault, and there is doubt as to whether he only bet on Reds and contrary to what was said earlier by someone, he did not bet on every game.
I feel the ban could not be lifted, as it never seemed that he would give up gambling and would most likely use any inside info he could, The HoF ban is unfortunate, but as they are now tied, I actually see no way around it
Wonder if he considered an ADA claim?
doesnāt matter if you never seek a cure
I have no problem if he gets inducted after death. I also have no problem if they keep the ban in place. Though I will say the Hall without both the all time hit leader and all time HR leader seems like a few glaring omissions.
I think having him inducted and having whatever they have to say on his plaque or whatever should both reference his accomplishments on filed regarding his status as all-time hit leader, MVP and his WS rings, but it should also prominent discuss his gambling, including on baseball and t he team he was managing that lead to his fall from grace and exclusion during his lifetime.
Would be OK too with similar treatment for steroid users though that already seems to be somewhat arbitrarily enforced.
Eh. Hall of Fame, not Hall of Infame.
Good news is that people will ask, and then they will know why after explanation.
Bonds is eligible, that is on the writers