Let’s assume we have a corrupt and amoral president. Fascist leanings and support of white supremacists, who lost the General election by electorate as well as the majority.
Let’s add that the DOJ, has moved away from being a non-partisan legal head and has become said President’s flunky
The Senate is majority in this President’s party. At the top they vocally support and encourage him. Truly Party over Country. The rest all seem willing to toe the line.
He has placed cronies at every level of government and is currently replacing the DOD
He his “view”, has a 2/3 majority in the SC. 1/3 personally picked by him.
If this president refuses to accept defeat and IF, this Supreme Court, without any evidence of fraud, backs him. Is there any recourse, other than a coup?
This is seriously keeping me up at night, as I don’t trust the SC to follow the legal avenue
I don’t doubt that the current SC would be pretty amenable to using any pretext, even a shamefully naked one, to keep Trump in office. But as far as I can tell, every single Trump challenge so far has been swatted down by the lower courts, and some judges have gotten extremely pissed off besides.
At this point, I’m pleasantly surprised that the lower courts have actually done their damn duty, and cautiously amused at the ineptitude of Giuliani et al. I don’t see what of any of his challenges could actually get to the Supreme Court. I’m concerned about the shit Trump is stirring up, too. I think the recent firings, coupled with Pompeo’s seditious statement earlier this week, is very, very bad. But right now, I don’t see how the Supreme Court even gets involved, unless it’s to rubber-stamp a coup that’s already basically a done deal, and if we get to that point, it wouldn’t matter much if the SC did vote 9-0 to kick Trump out.
Unless there were crystal clear evidence of voter fraud, I don’t see the SC allowing Trump to stick around. The impact it would have on our country would be catastrophic, as it would destroy faith in our electoral system and reduce our dwindling credibility around the world to almost zero, plus set a dangerous precedent for future administrations.
I think this is where your hypothetical falls apart. As you say only 1/3 of the SCOTUS was nominated by Trump (and even they weren’t personally picked by him in that Trump got their names from the Federalist Society). And Gorsuch and Barrett seem to be at least somewhat principled. I think Kavanaugh is the one most likely to blindly support the guy who got him the super sweet job. But he is only one justice among nine.
The 1/3 that was picked by Republican predecessors were picked by Republican predecessors who hated Trump. Bush Sr. is deceased now and W has publicly congratulated Biden and Harris. Neither Bush spoke at either convention: Sr was deceased by the second convention of course, but there were 3 chances for a Bush POTUS to speak at a Trump convention and none of those happened, nor did Jeb or Barbara or Laura speak at either convention, nor did any of them even attend either convention. This is pretty unusual. Barack and Michelle Obama and Bill and Hillary Clinton ALL spoke at the 2020 convention, and I’m pretty sure that they all spoke at the 2016 convention as well. So Thomas/Alito/Roberts can pretty clearly see which way the Bush family is leaning. So even assuming that those justices felt a sense of loyalty to the men who nominated them, that does not translate into wanting Trump to be POTUS enough to abandon morals, principles and the law enough to back him. Certainly not out of loyalty to the Bush’s. They might not even want him to be POTUS at all. Record numbers of Republicans supported Biden this go-around. It’s quite believable that some or all of the 6 SCOTUS justices appointed by Republicans are among them. Roberts, in particular, seems pretty moderate.
And of course we have nothing to worry about from the 1/3 appointed by Democrats.
I remember once congratulating a trial lawyer on winning his case and he shrugged his shoulders and said “it’s easy to win when you have the stronger case”. Guiliani has a pretty weak case and the best trial lawyer on the planet would have a pretty tough time winning it. I’m not sure that this reflects in any way on his skill as an attorney. It certainly reflects on his values as a person and we should absolutely judge him on that basis. But I don’t think it says much about his skill as an attorney.
From what I’m reading, the cases are getting laughed out of court, super basic paperwork isn’t getting filed correctly, and judges are getting royally pissed at the dishonesty (google “There’s a non - zero number of people in the room” if you haven’t heard that one yet). There is no reason not to believe, beyond a reasonable doubt, that this whole debacle is a display of once-in-a-generation incompetence. They’re not just evil, they’re evil AND stupid. QED.
Here is the pattern for Trump to avoid lawsuits and criminal investigations because that is what this is about. Win the election, he failed at this. Undermine the election with lawsuits, he is failing at this. None of the state election boards are working with him so I have trouble believing anything will get to the SC. He will drag this legal crap out as long as he has some one funding it for him. The next step will be to try to manipulate the electoral college. I don’t know enough about this to rate it but it doesn’t seem likely.
Now we get to the fun stuff. Trump can stay in office if he declares a national emergency the old military seizes control of the government to keep everyone “safe”. I have wondered if this is why they are so blatantly helping spread covid. I don’t see this as high risk. Primarily because Trump doesn’t have a strong enough flunky to pull it off. He has Barr for legal issues but none of the top military types have sided with him.
Anyway. Just musings on a rainy day. I feel for your paranoia. Look at the states mainly the swing states. It will take at least one of them to fold before the nonviolent legal path works.
with so many repubicans enabling him, including pretty much all of the republican senators i think, our credibility is kinda close to zero already. these people are so power hungry themselves and so afraid of trump, that democracy be dammed.
7 GOP Senators, 6 GOP Representatives, 4 GOP Governors (including 1 Governor-Elect), and handful of other “prominent Republicans” (Cindy McCain, Bush family members, etc.) have congratulated Biden, although one or two acknowledge Trump’s right to challenge results. But they don’t seem to be expecting him to get very far if you read between the lines (IMO).
yeah, not many, and i don’t count the mccain family or the bush family since they are not holding office currently. it’s easier for them to speak their minds with no backlash.
In the real situation the SC would probably uphold the truth.
In my Plot Against America like novel, I can see a Republican Senate that would approve anyone and a fantasy scenario where a legitimate election might be overturned
IRL, I am nauseously optimistic , but can not trust 100%
It’s easier for them to speak their mind with no backlash, but their doing so also makes it a little easier for current GOP office-holders or hopefuls to speak their minds too. So it counts for something. Especially a former President, IMO. Yes, there’s less risk, and that’s why they are in a separate category.
Also, I’m not sure that they’ve really polled all 197 GOP Representatives plus a handful of Representatives-Elect. Senate and Governor totals are probably closer to being complete, I will grant you. Still, those numbers might not be complete.
Well, he does have the right to challenge. It’s just that it’s useless to do so. Not sure why those GOP’ers don’t add that part, except to hedge their bets.
it’s like they’re trying to find the state whose laws agree with “If there is a single instance of voter fraud, then the whole election of that state (involving millions of votes) is fraudulent.”
Ben Sasse of Nebraska extended congratulations on behalf of himself and his wife, Melissa, according to the Omaha World-Herald. “Today in our house we pray for both President Trump and President-Elect Biden, that both would be wise in the execution of their respective duties during this important time in our nation,” Sasse said.
You’d think that God would have granted such wisdom in Outgoing President Trump by now. Shirley, there has been a lot of praying for that in the last four years.
Because their base is going to be talking about this stolen election for the next twenty motherfucking years and cherishing their persecution and martyrdom like it’s a security blanket that plays you Ben Shapiro monologues and Duck Dynasty reruns while you sleep, and if your Congressman is speaking cold, hard facts in public it kills the buzz. Republicans are insane enough to vote people out just for admitting outright that Trump just plain lost, I guarantee it.
The optimism in this thought is the idea that America gets another twenty years. Kind of a nice daydream.
No sense in making an enemy, even an idiotic one. And no sense in pissing off his voters, some of whom are also their voters. In fact, the bulk of a GOP Congress Critters’ votes came from Trump supporters, so they do have to be careful what they say.
I’m guessing that what they say to Trump in private is rather less nuanced than what they say publicly. I mean, probably not all 197 GOP Representatives have regular audiences with Trump, but the GOPers that do speak with Trump regularly are probably saying somewhat different things directly to him vs to the public at large.