Nope. I just posted in the “rounded the corner a final time” thread a Maddow report that right now health systems in rural Missouri are being overwhelmed due to Delta.
I thought about this a lot last year when schools opened in the fall.
How much do I want to inconvenience my 6 yr old vs what is the risk of serious illness to him and my family.
In the end, I had no say in the matter. Kids wore masks, end of story. But my opinion at the time was I would rather take the risk of illness than make him ware the mask if it was my choice.
I have the same opinion now. and now that the rest of the Fam is vaccinated, I really support the idea of allowing the risk to happen.
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Wow, I feel like wearing a mask is a very small inconvenience to help prevent serious illness in the family.
the inconvenience is subjective and the risk is effectively unmeasurable. A person could go either way with their opinion on the matter.
An anecdote that is admittedly an exceptional case, just for thought:
My wife is a survivor of some pretty nasty stuff that happened in her teenaged years. When masked, she has to actively work to avoid panic attacks…
We are both believers in masking; we’re generally masked in public still, despite being vaccinated, when local custom makes it socially acceptable to be masked. (That’s not always possible out in Ameristan.) But it’s a tough call for us sometimes.
Like I said, my wife’s is an exceptional case. At least my wife doesn’t have it as bad as a friend of hers, who has metal plates in her face due to an assault. She hasn’t found a mask yet that don’t cause skin issues from where the mask and the edge of a plate meet. And she works in a public-facing “essential” job…
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Oh, I understand that there are some people for whom wearing a mask is a significant burden, or even impossible. But I doubt that includes many healthy school children.
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The pandemic has been one helluva challenge to my libertarianism. But even before the pandemic I knew that libertarianism needed to be diluted with pragmatism, as “libertopia” relies on certain assumptions that don’t hold in reality.
For example: libertopia could only exist in an environment where people behave rationally. The proof that there are a lot of irrational people out there is left as an exercise for the reader.
I agree that there is no inalienable right to spread one’s germs needing to be preserved by government inaction. But I’m uncomfortable with the notion that government needs to mandate people go masked in public in ordinary circumstances (even though I sorta wish people would voluntarily adopt that practice).
The challenge then becomes figuring out where the line between government imposing a requirement due to extraordinary circumstances and government overreach lies. Threat of the medical system being overwhelmed seems like an easy call to make. (And I acknowledge that the risk still exists in some places in the US.)
Hmm…I knew both the conservative & progressive political wings had some authoritarian tendencies, but I never realized how many self-described libertarians are actually closet authoritarians themselves.
Maybe you will be happy to learn that the only vaccine denier in my family also claims to be a libertarian.
He’s pissed that his wife is going to a wedding that’s excluding unvaccinated people, though, because she should “support” him by also staying home.
Eh, given that school is compulsory, the government has an obligation to ensure reasonable safety precautions are taken. We can certainly debate what is and isn’t reasonable*, but to me, masks during a pandemic are reasonable.
*Expelling a kid who chewed his Pop Tart into the shape of a gun is NOT a reasonable safety precaution, as an example.
Might as well mandate they carry rabbits feet or wear charm bracelets.
But don’t just take my word for it. See the >70 references in this thread:
You never did get back to my long documented post about the efficacy of masks for covid.
Now, I will say that some of the reasons masks work so well for covid may make them work less well for the Delta variant. I’ve been watching the data on that. I’m pretty sure that opening windows in classrooms will still be a good idea, though.
I clicked on a few of those articles, some of which are medical/scientific publications, but others are news articles, like from the Montana Gazette. At least one has also been redacted. One was about a mask recall for a tainted batch. Does that mean we should never use a product, regardless of brand, because there’s been a recall of a batch? Never buy dog food, never buy bagged salad, because there’s been recalls before?
Its now looking like mid to late winter before under 12 vaccination approval might be coming. So if we are lucky the younger kids might be fully vaccinated by the end of the next school year. 
Yep, I still need to get back to that (which covid thread was that in?), while you can address the many covid-specific references I just posted.
Opening windows is definitely more effective than masking students:
Dog food has a benefit. I might switch brands over a safety recall. Bagged salad is dubious. You’re free to take your chances with it.
Because I’m bored, I’m going to take those points one by one
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Children are at very low risk from covid: Probably true, although the long-term neurological impacts are not well understood. (the “lose sense of smell” thing is because it infects the nerve leading from the nose to the brain. It’s known to infect the brain, as well.)
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Teachers do not face an increased risk from children: Most of the references are to newspaper articles. Two are to actual research papers. One relates low transmission in Norwegian primary schools and the other low rates of infection by daycare workers who continued to work as compare to those who didn’t. Both cited other infection control measures – increased space per student, increased washing, and some of the daycare workers also wore masks. Is YOUR kid’s school operating at lower density next year? If not, I doubt these studies are relevant.
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Masking children correctly is unrealistic: BS. Every parent I know who wears their mask correctly has kids who wear their mask correctly. This is a “parents don’t care” problem, and it’s one that can be addressed – it can probably even be addressed by teachers.
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Schools without masks have not fared worse: the refernces don’t particularly support this claim. The first says “not a lot of swedish kids had to be treated in the ICU.” It does not compare, say, how many Swedish kids were hospitalized as compared to Norwegian kids where there were more interventions. The next two are opinion pieces. The fourth is a big filterable data set. If you open it up, it appears to show comparable rates of transmission in schools with and without mask requirements. But if you read the notes, it says that there’s a high correlation between masking and student age, and suggests you filter the data. If you do so (looking only at elementary, or only at middle school) you see a striking increase in covid cases among teacher where the students aren’t masked. Marcie – you have actually found strong data supporting masking kids in school here.
Now, I will say that the elementary school data shows that TEACHERS are more likely to be infected if the kids don’t wear masks, but the kids a a little less likely. (For older kids, masks help the kids.) I suspect some of these kids need help wearing masks properly.
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Masking can often cause headache and fatigue: This is another BS claim. Yes, ill-fitting masks that tug at your ears can cause discomfort. So can certain home-made masks that don’t allow enough air to pass. The way to address this is to set standards for masks, and help kids find ones that fit properly.
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Children spread covid less than adults: True, but not really relevant. The above link shows that they do spread covid in schools, more if unmasked.
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okay, it’s late, and I’m running out of steam. I’ll just list the rest of the claims.
- Schools have not driven the spread of covid
- Improper masking is common and unsanitary
- Masks can hinder speech development
- Some masks contain toxic chemicals
- Asymptomatic children rarely spread covid
- The efficacy of masks is not conclusive
- Many places do not require masks on children
- Deaf and disabled children struggle to learn with masks
- masking can cause a wide variety of other health issues
The only one that makes any sense is that masks covering the lips ARE very hard on deaf kids (and adults). Most school-age kids have already learned to speak (and I hope that younger kids can see their parents speak unmasked at home). And hey, I was reading an article the other day about a bunch of kids who were poisoned by an insecticide that spilled in a truck carrying blue-jeans. But we don’t suggest that no one wear clothes because it’s possible for clothing to contain toxic substances.
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One of the listed “cons” of masks are that it gives a false sense of security, and therefore the wearer might not distance or wash hands. School spacing has been reduced to 3 feet, and we’ve learned that contaminated surfaces aren’t as significant as previously thought. Poor mask hygiene, like any poor hygiene, can have negative effects. We don’t chop off hands because we can get sick if they get bacteria on them.
Hands are useful.