Fine line between what is called abuse and what is called neglect and what is called endangerment.
And unfortunately, child advocates sometimes have no idea where the line is or decide that the parent isn’t worthy at all and move the line.
I haven’t entirely followed it, but I’m under the impression that even though there is an uptick of children being hospitalized with COVID, it is still not high enough for it to be a real danger to most kids.
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I’m curious of @NerdAlert’s thoughts on this as a foster parent.
I just get the impression that people who are not involved at all in the foster process think there are oh so many people around to take care of kids where they will get better care than with their actual parents, to just take them away for the smallest thing.
If the mother was giving her child horse dewormer or something, then fine take away visitation. If it’s just not getting vaccinated when there is no legal requirement to do so, that sounds like a scary place to live. I don’t get it.
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Kids get taken away for less, sadly. This kid, if he had ended up in the foster system, would 100% not be better off.
I don’t know enough about the custody arrangement or situation in general to really comment, but if it’s what it seems on the surface, that’s scary. One more bad reason to steal poor black kids from their parents. I hope that doesn’t happen.
Side note: we had a kid once due to medical neglect. It was justified, though, and family got him back. Nothing like this.
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I am 1000% behind Not taking away visitation rights for the unvaccinated. That’s just punishing the kid and an awful precedent.
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why is @Whiskey liking that post? Whiskey, you think that parents should have their kids taken away from them for not getting vaccinated?
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@Marcie is constantly talking about how COVID isn’t much of an issue for kids and some people get annoyed at it. You saying that reminded me so much of her comments. I’m sure Whisky was agreeing that it sounded like Marcie had taken over your account. 
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nah, I think that parents should get vaccinated to protect their kids, but I think it’s extreme to remove their kids from their care if they don’t, and the benefits of that do not make up for the consequences there.
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One of the things I found…interesting…about this case is that the dad is represented by Jeffrey Leving, a famed “father’s rights” divorce attorney.
According to the story on this I saw, he was surprised by the judge but supported the ruling afterward.
I wondered if he understood the horrible precedent this ruling, if it stood (doubtful) would set, letting judges pull custody for whatever bee happens to be in their bonnet, and that it would likely more often than not be used against his clients. Now I see he’s appealing the reversal, so I guess he doesn’t get it.
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Child support is based on time spent with each parent and relative earnings. So if the father has the kid full time he’s not only off the hook for support, he gets to collect from the mother. So of course he was happy.
This seems like the exact right take, IMO.
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Unfortunately, so does this. 
Does the father want no break from the kids? weird. kids are annoying.
I don’t think anybody thinks that, because clearly that’s wrong. It’s still tempting to react ‘good’ when these idiots get results from their behavior. No, the kids shouldn’t be taken away.
Similarly, COVID deniers are dying, and that’s also really unfortunate, even if there’s temptation to initially react with ‘they got what’s coming’. Maybe they did get what’s coming, and are owning responsibility for their actions, but yeah, we all know nobody actually is wishing death on COVID deniers.
Rastlin said he thinks that, but he left the thread. Apparently Whiskey doesn’t though…
@ao_fan seems close to wanting them dead. She is happy one of them is dead.
As for this Judge, here is another article that expands on him. He questioned another parent in a case about vaccination.
From the Article
“Have you been vaccinated?” Shapiro asks Hambrick.
A discussion begins over whether the question violates HIPAA, a federal law governing the release of an individual’s health information by health care providers and insurance plans.
Then, Shapiro tells him that “it would behoove you to get vaccinated, sir. … It’s not a personal question because it affects other people, OK? And it does not violate HIPAA.”
Hambrick tells Shapiro that he has consulted with family members who are nurses and doctors.
“I would be very surprised if you consulted with a doctor who advised you not to get vaccinated,” Shapiro says.
“I would not be as surprised if you consulted with a nurse who did not get vaccinated because nurses apparently in Houston and elsewhere are refusing to get vaccinated. That speaks a lot to their intelligence level and I would not want to be treated by a nurse who refused to get vaccinated. It’s not a choice, Mr. Hambrick, it’s an obligation.”
‘It’s just dumb not to get vaccinated,’ judge says
In another video shot and posted by Hambrick, Shapiro is heard telling another man during a different hearing on the same day that he should be vaccinated and admits to ordering some parents and some children to be vaccinated.
“It’s just dumb not to get vaccinated,” Shapiro tells the man. “Nobody with half a brain is not getting vaccinated these days. The only people not getting vaccinated are dying, OK. So I urge you and your daughter to get vaccinated. It’s stupid not to and I have been ordering parents to get vaccinated and some kids to get vaccinated also. That’s how strongly I feel about the efficacy of this vaccine. Reasonable minds cannot differ about this vaccine.”
I would hate to have to go in front of this judge.
I’m inconsistent here I guess. dead, sure, take their kids away while alive, nope!
actually, on second thought, that’s not inconsistent. one is the virus taking their parents away from them, and the other is a judge. i’m not cool with the judge doing it. if the virus does it, this makes it the parent’s fault entirely for not getting vaccinated, which wouldn’t be the case with the judge…
To clarify my position:
If there is a vaccinated father who is capable of caring for the child with an unvaccinated mother, I think it best for the child to be with the father full-time. If he were a deadbeat, or working but too poor to get childcare even with child support payments, that would be different. I wouldn’t support throwing a kid into foster care, that is easily worse.
There is a lot of nuance to this situation that has been lost because the mother’s lawyer gave a press conference external to the legal process and only gave their side. Separately, the father supported the ruling (though did not ask for it), which could be just leveraging his position for child support, but also could be out of genuine concern for the child.
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