Ok, fair enough. If he said he knew Rosenbaum was unarmed then I guess he at least believed it (though how he could have known it is hard for me to understand).
If someone was coming at my gun after threatening to kill me, I think I’d be pretty damn scared though.
If he believed Rosenbaum had a gun then his testimony doesn’t make much sense, since he claims he killed him to prevent him from getting a gun.
Which is why I think Kyle is responsible for what happened by playing vigilante cop and bringing a weapon to a volatile situation he was not trained to handle. He put himself in a bad situation where he was quickly in over his head. I DON’T think that amounts to murder. But I do think he bears a lot of responsibility for the whole chain of events and I think it’s a shame no one stopped a kid from being in this situation.
Technically Rittenhouse killed Rosenbaum to prevent Rosenbaum from getting Rittenhouse’s gun, leaving Rittenhouse unarmed.
Rosenbaum going after Rittenhouse’s gun doesn’t mean Rosenbaum was unarmed. It just means that he didn’t want Rittenhouse to have a gun and believed (erroneously, as it turns out) he could get it away from Rittenhouse.
I mean, if I’d threatened to kill someone, then I suppose I’d prefer they be unarmed irrespective of whether I had a gun or not.
Per his testimony, he killed Rosenbaum to stop him from getting his gun and killing people. “If I would have let Mr. Rosenbaum take my firearm from me, he would have used it and killed me with it and probably killed more people if I would have let him get my gun.”
It doesn’t make sense (to me, which isn’t saying much) if he thought Rosenbaum already had a gun. It only makes sense if he thought he was unarmed.
Yeah, I already said that it sounds like he believed Rosenbaum was unarmed.
But he certainly had a legit reason for being literally deathly afraid of Rosenbaum.
Also worth noting, is that Rosenbaum was a sex offender and had just been released from a mental hospital that day. My guess is that he was creepy as all get out… and had threatened to kill Rittenhouse.
I think a reasonable person who’s life had been threatened by someone who most likely gave off creepy vibes and then lunged at them would be afraid.
I agree with Marcie… I would not want my kid going there. It was just a recipe for disaster, which in fact occurred.
But given the facts of the case…
Judges instructions here:
The section on Provocation at the bottom of page 3 is interesting. If your behavior unlawfully provokes an attack you can’t defend yourself, but if you believe you’re in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm then you can.
Seems like he would have believed he was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm from all 3 of Rosenbaum, Huber, and the third guy whose name escapes me at the moment.
In Wisconsin, homicide while OWI is a Class D felony that can lead to up to $100,000 in fines, 25 years in prison and five years’ license revocation. If this is your second or third OWI, the penalties increase substantially.
This is under the “Reckless Homicide” umbrella. My understanding is that normally prosecutors have to convince jurors your actions are “reckless”. (See judges instructions) But, for OWI, there is no need to prove that. OWI is explicitly defined as reckless.
That’s my analogy for this case. To me, taking a rifle to a riot is “reckless”, regardless of whether you intended to kill someone with it or not.
But, there is no Wisconsin law that explicitly says that. At least some jurors probably believe that carrying a gun in public places is always legal (or should be, 2A and all). So simply going to a place where he expected a riot isn’t illegal, and carrying a gun with him isn’t illegal, so can’t get up to “reckless”.
What is OWI???
Operating while intoxicated is my guess.
Operating what? A firearm? A motor vehicle?
Did he actually live there half the time, or is this just based on his dad living there? The parents all seem to be a bit cryptic in the story.
None of this happens if Kyle just sits his ass at home and keeps his nose clean. He went looking for trouble, found it, and now other people are dead. As a result, he is responsible for all that happened and should be punished with significant jail time, not only to keep him off the streets from doing this again but also as a deterrent against other idiots who think they are entitled to shit they are not entitled to.
His Dad lived in Kenosha, WI and his Mom lived in Antioch, IL. The two towns are about 20 miles apart. He was a legal resident of IL, and testified in court that he felt that Kenosha was “part of [his] community”.
I haven’t seen an official source indicating 50%… or any other percent. Which isn’t to say that the info isn’t out there. But I didn’t see it in the Wikipedia or the Tangle article. Just Marcie’s post.
Also he worked in Pleasant Prarie, WI, which is in between Antioch and Kenosha, but closer to Kenosha.
Here’s a map, for reference. Again, Antioch to Kenosha is about 20 miles.
No. Nor if Rosenbaum had done the same. Or not been released from the mental hospital earlier that day. Or not threatened to kill a 17 year old punk.
Good question. I had read that a couple places, but can’t find a good source now to confirm. What I had seen may have just been people guessing based on his dad living there.
ETA: twig’s answer is better, still not a clear answer.
