https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-postwar-plan.html
As I said yesterday. After the war, there may be a group overseeing Gaza, consisting of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt, Israel, and the US. Part of the proposed arrangement is also to overhaul the education system in Gaza.
I see another civil war within Gaza if this happens, as Hamas will try to maintain control. I wonder if the Arab nations will be better or worse than Israel in minimizing civilian casualties - and if the Islamic media will be truthful in reporting the numbers. No, I donât believe theyâre truthful now.
OK. I read it. My quick summary:
Israel would like help from the Arab states. Their new partners follow Israeli instructions and clean the place up. No Palestinian statehood. Thatâs a laughable proposal. Saudi and UAE have been clear, insisting on irrevocable steps towards a Palestinian state. But thatâs off the table.
Not a serious effort, imo. I said it before: if Israel is truly interested in eliminating Hamas, then come up with a plan for the peace. This is not such a plan.
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I ran into a nice summary of the history of the middle east
Eta: you can read the page if you want, but i intended to link the short video on the page.
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Well, the SHTF right about now.
Its become clear now that Bibi is fanning the extremist military option for his own benefit (largely because the right-wing members of his Govt are threatening to collapse his Govt).
Going to be interesting to see how many sanctions fall on top of Israelâs head from the EU after this one.
https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2024/05/06/congress/gop-senators-warn-icc-on-israel-00156232
And members of the US government are telling the ICC NOT to go after Israel.
Sinwar, the leader of Hamas in Gaza, is using Israeli hostages as shields to keep himself safe.
Hamas gas agreed to ceasefire proposal. The ball is now very much in Israelâs court.
Hamas Agrees to a Cease-Fire Plan; Israel Says It Doesnât Meet Terms Middle East Crisis: Israel Steps Up Attacks on Rafah as Hamas Shifts Position on Cease-fire - The New York Times
Hamas Agrees to a Cease-Fire Plan; Israel Says It Doesnât Meet Terms Middle East Crisis: Israel Steps Up Attacks on Rafah as Hamas Shifts Position on Cease-fire - The New York Times
Why do you say that? Israel has made multiple proposals, which Hamas refused to agree to, yet you never said âThe ball is in Hamasâs courtâ. Why the double standard? Why will you blame Israel if this agreement doesnât happen, but you donât blame Hamas for the lack of an agreement until now?
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If Hamas is asking for a permanent cease-fire are they saying they will never again attack Israel?
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Iâm not sure itâs a double standard. From what I understand this latest proposal seems to come from the international community and not Hamas or Israel directly. Maybe this latest proposal really is a non-starter for Israel, I donât know enough about the details to say for sure one way or another.
But I will say most of the commentary I seen on the current situation all points to Netenyahu being the stumbling block. That is anytime any proposal (that doesnât give 100% of what Israel wants with little or no consideration to what Palestine might want) Netenyahu seems to say - um yeah no thanks I kind of like this war going one, keeps me in power.
So from my perspective I see Netenyahu and the other hardliners acting similar to the House Freedum Quacas in the US, only unlike the Freedum Quacus they are actually the ones in power right now in Israel.
Maybe Iâm wrong but Israel did have different more moderate leadership, I think there probably is a pathway to a cease fire and that the very least a âreturn to status quoâ which might not be the best long term solution it seems a whole lot better for both sides than what is going on right now.
Likewise, if some more moderate group than Hamas were ânominally in charge of Palestineâ that might also lead to some more productive peace talks.
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The agreement supposedly came from Egypt and Qatar.
Israel responded by saying that they had agreed to a proposal from Egypt 10 days ago, but this is not the same proposal.
So Iâd say that both sides here agreed to different proposals from the International community, and both sides rejected the deal the other side had agreed to. I think that if there is blame to be placed, itâs equal on both sides.
I also wouldnât trust Hamas on any ceasefire, because they have openly said that they plan on carrying out more attacks like October 7th.
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I see a 42-day ceasefire with the goal of a permanent ceasefire. I donât see Hamas initially offering a permanent ceasefire.
When I read your post I was willing to say, âIf Hamas said permanent, and Israel doesnât egregiously violate the terms and Hamas attacks again, theyâre clearly 100% in the wrong.â Not that I am defending Hamas, but I donât see they suggested that.
I donât trust Hamas or the current Israeli government much. But I distrust Hamas far more than the current Israeli government.
Have they said this since agreeing to the ceasefire? I seem to recall Netenyahu (or someone in his government) saying they would destroy Hamas, should we now not trust Israel if they agree to a ceasefire with Hamas? If neither side is allowed to change their mind no matter what, then clearly any talks are useless.
In practice though, Iâm not sure anyone in Hamas even has that much control over everyone in the area, not sure if they could cease all the firing even if they wanted to. Beyond occasionally reading the posts here Iâm not particularly well informed on this though.
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Recently, Israel has repeatedly said they wonât agree to a ceasefire which would end the war, because they are committed to destroying Hamas. So I think theyâre being open about their intentions.
And if the war ends, Bibi gets voted out. So he canât let that happen.
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So its now become the entire world vs Bibi.
Personally, I think his lust for power is so great that he will keep this going.
Hamas accepts hostage-for-prisoner swap proposal - https://on.ft.com/44tcPZz via @FT
Israel accepted the proposal 10 days ago as it was presented by Egypt. Hamas now changed it, and is claiming theyâre accepting it as well - but itâs not the same proposal that was originally offered.
If you think itâs really the whole world vs Bibi, youâre sadly mistaken.
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Current status: increasing visible anti war sentiment, especially at Universities. This is drawing out true antisemitism. I think we can all agree on that much.
So if things stay as they are, the anti semitism crowd is only going to get stronger. This must make Hamas giggle themselves into delirium. Hamas getting more âHate the Jewsâ messaging out there than they ever dreamed for. Simply put, Hamas is winning. They know it. So donât expect the victors to accept a deal to stop. Thatâs just fantasyland.
So instead of debating which side is more wrong or less right, itâs time to stop making matters worse for Israel. Iâm not gonna speculate why the Israeli govt is shooting itself in the foot. Donât care a wit about that. But someone has to slap them hard and wake them up.
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The current offers may be different. I was thinking about earlier news reports that had Israel considering short duration ceasefires and Hamas wanting permanent ones.
Disagree. See article below.
The right-wing extremists are basically driving the entire country off a cliff with Bibi being their front man.