Israel - Hamas War October 2023

[Rastiln]

@SredniVashtar

I think as a general rule, young men love dying for their countries (or gods or ideology or other stuff). So much so I’d hesitate to call it indoctrination.

Not so sure about that one. Think most of ours would be content playing Call of Duty and pursuing girls at home.

[joejam]

Here is an article from the NYT about how and why the Oslo accords fell apart. I admittedly did not have time yet to read it. Probably will get around to it over the weekend but it looks interesting and relevant to this thread.

Was Peace Ever Possible? (Published 2023)

[joejam]

It looks like there might be a deal for the return of some of the hostages!!

[The_Polymath]

Yes. Looks like 50 hostages (from Hamas) swapped for a few hundred Palestinian prisoners (women and children in Israeli jails). Also, a 5-day ceasefire is in effect in order to get the swap accomplished.

Biden also seems to have gotten a few more Americans out (from the hostages). Unsurprisingly, the extremists in the Israeli cabinet voted against such a swap.

This seems to have been done because the families of the hostages in Israel are putting huge pressure on Bibi & Co to negotiate. Biden also helped quite a bit, as did Qatar.

[act_123]

The hostage deal was agreed to by the Israeli cabinet because they agree it is of upmost importance to get their citizens back even if they have to release some prisoners who attempted murder and who have significant weapons charges. The bulk is more likely less serious crimes. They debated for it for many hours in the Knesset yesterday.

One of the reasons why part of the cabinet did not agree is because they fear what Hamas will do in those five days. One of the demands was for Israel to agree not to have UAVs operating.

There is a chance of a second swap later in the month. I guess it depends on how the first swap goes. I hope it works out.

[Snikelfritz]

Has Israel agreed to withdraw, or just stop shooting?

[Snikelfritz]

Agree hamas can not be trusted.

[act_123]

They agreed to stop firing. I think literally anything could trigger both sides. This agreement is very tentative. I really hope they can get the hostages back.

[The_Polymath]

The bulk is public order offenses and/or arson. Nothing serious (basically for protesting).

Israel’s list of eligible Palestinian prisoners included 33 women and 123 young people, most of whom have been charged with public order offences or arson. No prisoners convicted of murder will be freed, local media reported, but two serving long sentences for stabbing an Israeli officer are on the list.

Benjamin Netanyahu warns war will continue until Hamas is eliminated

[R_Daneel_Olivaw]

You need to check your definitions for the region. Only about 10% are women, most are teenage males. A number are considered members of Hamas or other similar groups. They are considered of fighting age by Hamas, if not the UN. 2 are listed as in for attempted murder. So just incompetent murderers.
Should be telling to see who Hamas asks for.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/22/middleeast/palestinian-prisoners-potential-release-intl-cmd/index.html

[3rookie]

I admit that I was fortunately wrong about the hostages (at least many) being alive and being returned.

[NormalDan]

Scary to think what they went (and many are still going) through

[joejam]

Hamas recently said that the (now) 10 month old baby has been handed to other groups and that they need to find where he is . Scary that even they do not know where everyone is.

[SteveGrondin]

Spreadsheet controls issues are ubiquitous.

[Cooke]

@3rookie

I admit that I was fortunately wrong about the hostages (at least many) being alive and being returned.

Yes but there is no way Hamas will willingly release ALL of them. And the Americans, Canadians and Western Europeans may be the most valuable to them as bargaining chips.

[Lucy]

@joejam

Hamas recently said that the (now) 10 month old baby has been handed to other groups and that they need to find where he is . Scary that even they do not know where everyone is.

US immigration services, which… had conditions much more conducive to record-keeping, lost track of a lot of the children they separated from their families at the border. (Or lost track of what family they belonged to.) I don’t find this even a little bit surprising.

I’m a little surprised so many of the hostages are still alive that they are willing to exchange some of them.

[joejam]

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israeli-hostages-stories.html?unlocked_article_code=1.CU0.k9PZ.3iBmY90TZyb-&smid=url-share

[The_Polymath]

The right-wingers in Israel seem unable to understand strategy. They are almost feral in their diplomatic discussions which is not doing them any favours.

Hint: don’t attack the country that currently holds the rotating EU Presidency.

Speaking to Spain’s state broadcaster TVE on Thursday morning, Sánchez repeated his condemnation of Hamas’s attacks on 7 October, but said “friendly countries really have to be able to tell each other things”.

“We’ve said from the very beginning that what Hamas did in Israel is absolutely atrocious and abominable,” he said, adding that he had watched 20 minutes of “very tough” footage of the attacks during last week’s meeting with Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu.

“We’ve also always shown our public commitment to Hamas having to free all the hostages they hold immediately and without any conditions whatsoever,” Sánchez said.

“But we have to tell Israel, with the same conviction, that its actions must be based on international humanitarian law. But with the images we’re seeing and the growing number of people – especially boys and girls – who are being killed, I have genuine doubts that they’re complying with international humanitarian law.”

During last week’s joint visit to the region with Belgium’s prime minister, Alexander De Croo, Sánchez said the number of dead Palestinians was “truly unbearable” and reiterated that the creation of a Palestinian state remained the best way to bring peace and security to the region. De Croo said Israel’s military operation needed to respect international humanitarian law, adding: “The killing of civilians needs to stop.”

The pair’s comments led the Israeli foreign ministry to accuse them of “giving support to terrorism” and to summon the ambassadors of both countries.

Spain’s foreign minister, José Manuel Albares, called the Israeli government’s comments “false, misplaced and unacceptable”.

Sánchez also dismissed the criticism, saying: “Condemning the vile terrorist attacks of a terrorist group like Hamas, and at the same condemning the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians in Gaza, is not a question of political parties nor of ideology, it is a question of being humane.”

Spanish prime minister says he doubts Israel is respecting international law

[Rastiln]

I was shared a video and debated whether to post here, but wasn’t able to post it without linking to TikTok.

Was a Palestinian boy perhaps around 10 describing about how he was retrieving a soccer ball that’d been kicked far away, and during that his brother and friends were bombed (the presumption is by IDF). He described seeing his friend’s brains out of his skull. Kid was clearly in shock, but just kind of stood there describing horrors unlike any I’ve had to face directly.

[The_Polymath]

I actually have zero doubt now that Israel will be taken to the Hague for committing war crimes. Almost 10,000 children have been killed by their indiscriminate bombing campaign.

There is no defense against that. The more the right-wingers try to justify their behavior, the more unstable they look to the international community, thus they end up marginalised and isolated.

Israel is about to find out that you really do need friends in the international arena.