Today, the leaders of France, Germany, Italy, the United Kingdom and the United States of America released the following joint statement following their call:
Today, we â President Macron of France, Chancellor Scholz of Germany, Prime Minister Meloni of Italy, Prime Minister Sunak of the United Kingdom, and President Biden of the United States â express our steadfast and united support to the State of Israel, and our unequivocal condemnation of Hamas and its appalling acts of terrorism.
We make clear that the terrorist actions of Hamas have no justification, no legitimacy, and must be universally condemned. There is never any justification for terrorism. In recent days, the world has watched in horror as Hamas terrorists massacred families in their homes, slaughtered over 200 young people enjoying a music festival, and kidnapped elderly women, children, and entire families, who are now being held as hostages.
Our countries will support Israel in its efforts to defend itself and its people against such atrocities. We further emphasize that this is not a moment for any party hostile to Israel to exploit these attacks to seek advantage.
All of us recognize the legitimate aspirations of the Palestinian people, and support equal measures of justice and freedom for Israelis and Palestinians alike. But make no mistake: Hamas does not represent those aspirations, and it offers nothing for the Palestinian people other than more terror and bloodshed.
Over the coming days, we will remain united and coordinated, together as allies, and as common friends of Israel, to ensure Israel is able to defend itself, and to ultimately set the conditions for a peaceful and integrated Middle East region.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/10/09/joint-statement-on-israel/
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Canada and First Nations[/quote]
Thankfully our FN folks arenât waging open warfare on us. And theyâre complaints seem mostly centered on the govât, as they should, rather than on individuals.
Though one of the few times Iâve felt uncomfortable in my life has been in around northern FN reserves. A lot of unguarded hostile stares. But nobody throwing rocks at me or anything.
One side has regular elections and has representatives of all ethnicities. (Even to the point that in a parliamentary government, a small interest group - based on ethnicity - can represent a key group to get votes from, so thereâs a lot of leverage that can be gotten from that.)
The other side hasnât had elections for years and only represents one ethnicity.
I think the difference is pretty clear.
To give a sense of scale, Israel is about the size of New Jersey. Thatâs true of both its land and its population. Like NJ, it has densely populated cities and areas that are pretty empty. Unlike NJ, it has a lot of desert, but it also has massive desalination plants, so at the moment there is plenty of water. The agriculture tends more towards dates than sweet corn, but both NJ and Israel have large agricultural areas.
Israel doesnât have sprawling suburbs, though. We found it weird to see empty stretched peppered with a few 10 story apartment buildings. Traditional Arab âvillagesâ (which i would have called âtownsâ based on appearance) are shorter, but the buildings there are all cheek-by-jowl.
Israeli forces will try to totally eliminate Hamas. This will require a âhouse by houseâ search in Gaza for terrorists. Israeli missile, plane and tank attacks will need to be used sparingly to avoid killing hostages: huge numbers of foot-soldiers will be required instead. This will take months.
This is what struck me when I visited in November 2016. I donât know New Jersey well but it certainly doesnât have the beautiful desert areas that Israel has. Only negative of our visit was that Trump won the election when we were there and that prompted much joy from many of the locals.
Obviously this could be decades or centuries out, but I donât know how the Middle East gets settled without an all-out war that exterminates one side. No leader on any side any desire to settle and coexist with the Israelis, and everyone swears theyâre right and the supreme race there. No matter how you divvy up land there, someone is going to be pissed that the other side has some square inch they think is theirs because of divine whatever.
And as a result, a lot of innocent people are going to get killed along the way.
Fully agree with Mr. Roth. Ex-Human Rights Watch.
I find myself much less sympathetic to the Palestinian cause after this. Hamas tried to maximize civilian casualties.
When al queda did something similar to the US, two countries got invaded.
Proportionately this was a much heavier blow to Israel.
Hamas wants a one state solution, and with this, they just might get it, although not the one state theyâd wanted.
I think its important to separate the West Bank (not run by Hamas) from Gaza (run by Hamas). Those are the two main Palestinian territories.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation. I donât think you will find anybody who objectively disagrees with that assesment. They made their bed with their latest actions, and they will pay the consequences for it.
The West Bank however is not run by a terrorist organisation (Fatah). They are also Palestinians who had nothing to do with the attacks.
So its not as clear-cut as made out in the media.
Looks like various countries are starting to evacuate their citizens from Israel due to the suspension of flights.
So its likely that the ground war element of this conflict is going to get started fairly soon.
Agree, and I think itâs clear thatâs how Israel is looking at it as well. They arenât bombing the West Bank, theyâre bombing Gaza.
Hamas has always been a terrorist organization. I remember the Hamas bus bombings and suicide bombers in the 1990s and 2000s before Israel built a fence.
I wonder if Israel and America are trying very hard not to tie this to Iran because they donât want to enter into a war with Iran.
And the West Bank is a lot richer than Gaza, in part because they are run by a moderately incompentent government, and not by a terrorist organization that benefits from having a miserable population.
The gov type you are looking for is Kleptocracy
Sure. Itâs actually a fairly crappy government. My point is that even a crappy government is better than just having terrorists run the place.
Iâm not convinced this would makes sense. For one I donât know if itâs realistic to hold a city with just soldiers, or root out all the terrorists that way.
And for another, even if they were successful, wouldnât Hamas just slaughter the hostages when it became apparent that they were losing?
Man whatâs wrong with Gaza, canât they capitalize on having access to the ocean or something. Port cities are supposed to be rich.
Supplies into Gaza are very strictly monitored because of Hamas. By both Israel and Egypt.
Even the supply of concrete is controlled.
Its a shitty situation because you have 2.3 million people living in some pretty awful conditions, and you canât really help them much due to Hamas.
Once this is all over and Israel levels half of Gaza, I think there is going to be a pretty serious humanitarian crisis in the Gaza area. At least 500,000 people with no access to water, food, electricity etc.
There is going to be a big need for humanitarian aid