Above we have arguments that kids shot should have been shot because of one thing or another. Towards the top shutting of water and electricity for the whole of Gaza is defended. There are some weird arguments above.
Also do you honestly think hamas can be eliminated without killing women and children? Is that a feasible goal? How would it be done differently than what has been done in the last 14 or so months?
I am specifically NOT advocating for the elimination of Hamas
Since there are women and children fighting for Hamas, probably not.
More generally:
Iâm not sure itâs meaningful to talk about killing women in a conflict where women are actively fighting on both sides.
And children⌠define. I see a distinction between killing an armed 17.5 year-old fighter and a 4 year old child, but these are often conflated as being the same thing.
IIRC the definition is anyone 15 and above is not a child.
But those nuances, you correctly highlight, that lead us away from being able to define hamas as a separate entity from the Palestinians to being suspicious of everyone are the arguments that shore up genocide.
It seems Trump put pressure on Israel to stop delaying.
If Trumpâs aggressive threats end up being the thing that broadly resolves the Hamas threat and begins peaceful relations between Israel and Palestinians, Iâll happily return here and eat my words.
Recent developments seem positive and I wonât shit on what seems like good news for the world just because it looks good for Trump. Iâd prefer for this to play out positively for the good of many rather than fall apart under Trumpâs watch.
That said, Trump historically shits the bed on most of his promises, so letâs see the results before celebrating.
This deal doesnât resolve the Hamas threat, or bring peaceful relations between Israel and Palestinians.
It actually strengthens Hamas, by giving them the time to rebuild themselves, and removes Israel from Gaza, so there is nobody stopping them from re-arming. It doesnât ensure that the government running Gaza is a peaceful one - Hamas will likely remain in power.
Hamas leaders have declared numerous times that they plan to keep carrying out attacks like October 7th, and wonât stop until Israel is destroyed.
This cease-fire isnât a peace deal. Itâs just delaying the fighting. Eventually weâll have a repeat of this war.
Hm, youâre saying Trump is aiding Hamas by giving them breathing room? Because Trump is claiming credit for this.
Iâm not trying to pin you with a gotcha, just trying to understand - youâre saying that the deal Trump is claiming credit for is strengthening terrorists.
Why does it matter what Trump is claiming?
You should understand why the words of the President-Elect of the United States matter.
Exactly. You cannot kill any ideology with force without killing the host. Eliminating Hamas through force is the same as saying eliminate the Palestinians.
So you think that all Palestinians are members of Hamas?
Wow. Just, wow.
This post is serious?
In fairness, I think the first step to learning to live with Trump is accepting that he likes to say a lot of shit, most of which doesnât matter. Most presidents are very thoughtful in what they say and talk about. Thatâs not Trump. Unless you want another 4 years spinning just ignore what he says and watch closely what he does.
Trump is claiming he was behind it. Biden is claiming the same. Who really was the one who made the deal? I donât really know. The deal is close (although I see reports now that Hamas is trying to change one last thing that Israel doesnât want to give in on.)
What it comes down to is whether you believe that the Palestinians really want a lasting peace with Israel. While Iâm sure that there are Palestinian people who do, the people in power there (Hamas) definitely donât. Thatâs why any deal now is only temporary.
Letâs say for argument sake this cohort of people in Gaza want a lasting peace and they adhere to the peace but the occupation continues. I can see a separate entity eventually becoming an issue in the same way as plo was succeeded by hamas. In the same way as you see nothing materially has changed so does everyone else because nothing about the situation before October 7 has been solved. Also now their lives will be harder after everything was demolished and they know who did it. Peace maybe there but itâs very likely so will there be a smouldering hatred.
I understand that you will only answer via omission, and when asked directly deflect to âWhy should it matter what the President says?â All set with this discussion, thanks.
Well, Iâm not directly saying Trump is aiding Hamas, because I donât know if Trump is really responsible for the deal. Whomever is behind the deal is aiding Hamas, yes.
What occupation? Before October 7th, there was no occupation. Israel was not in Gaza. According to the terms of the deal, Israel will withdraw from Gaza. So what occupation are you referring to?
When Palestinians refer to the occupation, they are referring to Israel as a whole, because they donât want it to exist - they view the entire country as occupied.
Gaza is a refugee camp. From their perspective nothing has been solved about the occupation that resulted in them being in a refugee camp. No 2 state solution or anything. They are in the same refugee camp they have been in from 1948. These guys may accept that but itâs not a surprise if a future group says âwait a minute why are we comfortable in a refugee camp?â.