should have mandated the vaccine in Jan of this year.
All this dicking around gave people the conception of choice on the matter… Its like we made a national crisis out of thin air by doing nothing.
I was vax hesitant for a long time, but looking back, they should have just brought the hammer down on day 1.
doesnt matter what they do now, damage is already done.
What if the government worker has to work at a non-government worksite? A couple situations I can think of are FDA inspectors who work at production facilities to do inspections? Or NASA or Military personnel who have to work at the production facility of a contractor who is building things for NASA or the Military? Would these employers be required to uphold the government mandate because the government wants to protect their employee from having to be exposed to non-vaccinated people if the government contracting employer doesn’t want to mandate the vaccine? The mention of Lockheed above got me thinking about this going the other way.
America literally invaded its own capitol in January.
I think we were bound to make a crisis out of nothing here too.
I think that the government can require its own employees.
And an FDA employee doing inspections… the place they are inspecting should be able to insist on vaccinated inspectors. Or the military liaison to Lockheed Martin… LM could insist that he/she be vaccinated to enter their facility.
All of this is assuming we are talking about the “private mandate” option.
Government has more leeway under the two “government mandate” options.
You were saying the government contractor having to be vaccinated because he was going into the government’s building which has a mandate so the contractor falls under the mandate to be able to go into the government’s building.
I was going the other way. Should the governments mandate apply to LM because the government worker is going into their building when they don’t want to have a mandate?
I believe the way the government implemented their mandate that LM does fall under the mandate because they are a contractor.
I assumed the rational was that the government wanted to keep their employees safe and if their employees were working in an integrated manner with a private company’s workers then the government wanted those private company workers to be vaccinated to protect the government workers.
I was less talking about the options in the poll and a little more about your response to @RoyWalley. Though it is much more hypothetical than even the poll so you don’t need to keep this going. I’m fine with your poll options and voted with the one that most closely matched my feelings today.
I think the government ought to be able to say that it is not going to contract with private companies that don’t vaccinate if there will be government employees on site, sure.
Similarly, LM could choose to not do business with some other private company based on lack of vaccination among that company’s employees.
I like your poll options, too. I wasn’t sure until I read your definitions, but having done so, I think they cover all the major bases nicely.
I am definitely conflicted. Really the answer is that I am saddened that it needs to be mandated at all and wish that more people just got vaxxed on their own.
Just n=2, but my conversation with people not vaxxed led me to believe that pressuring them to get it done would only get them to dig in their heels more. I live in a very liberal area though, so may not generalize well.
Lucy disagrees because she understands human nature.
But she’s also confused at how this could have become politicized, so there’s that.
That was bitterness, not a literal failure to understand. Sadly, I’ve watched the politicisation of vaccines for a while now.
No, there is a literal failure to understand on your part because you’re not able to separate opinions of this vaccine from opinions of other vaccines. Once you’re able to figure that out, some of the other things may become easier for you to understand.
No, I think you’re right. My original home area has flipped from Democrat to deep Republican over the last ~20 years, and a large percentage of people there refuse to get vaxxed no matter how much government officials - officials who are at best independent and more than likely Republican - plead with them to do it.
I think part of it is a misperception of risk, part of it is I’m not letting those goddamn liberals tell me what to do but part of it is also human nature. People tend to reject new information when it clashes with what they want to believe. The hyper-polarization of things only amplifies that tendency some more, and when people don’t have traumatic personal experiences they tend to poo-poo the experiences others have.
Do you sincerely believe demeaning others and opining they practice wrong-headed thinking will get them to understand that your arguments are sound?
Interesting.
It’s called helping.
Probably. Or not.
I’m surprised how many voted for a comprehensive government mandate. I think if this group as leaning libertarian, but obviously that’s not all who posts.
True, but this is also a group of risk-averse actuaries with better-than-average understanding of mortality and morbidity statistics and at this point, also epidemiological statistics.
I’m fairly Libertarian and I voted for limited government mandate. If your right to swing your fist ends at my nose, so does your right to exhale Covid germs.
I suppose I could use that as justification to vote for the comprehensive government ban, but that seems like a bridge too far to me.
But I think you could be a Libertarian and vote that way. Protecting people’s lives is one of the few functions that government should actually be doing. 
The libertarian argument here is so busted though. It’s not just the freedom to take or not take the vaccine that’s being given to folks right now. It’s also the freedom to severely burden our healthcare infrastructure.
The true libertarian argument here would also include striking down the EMTALA so that emergency treatment could be denied to COVID patients.
I think of this group as leftists who have never seen a big government solution that couldn’t be made bigger.
1400 a day are dying from a preventable disease. I just want to stop that.