Improved Covid vaccine poll

The Sandbox Political Topics
1
  • force
  • comprehensive government mandate
  • limited government mandate
  • private mandate
  • limited private mandate
  • individual choice
  • anti vax
  • 42 vaccinations

0 voters

Carryover from the other thread.

Definitions:
Force: Government uses military/police force to ensure that every medically eligible individual is vaccinated.

Comprehensive government mandate: Government requires vaccination to engage in most normal activities such as working at most private/public jobs, entry to most venues (museums/restaurants/arenas/auditoriums), daycare, pre-K through university education, etc.

Limited government mandate: Government requires vaccinations for specified activities such as working in healthcare, entry to a military base, working for or attending public schools, use of public transportation. Other entities such as restaurants, sports/arts venues, private schools, most private employers may choose whether or not impose their own mandates.

Private mandate: Private and government employers, hospitals, airlines, restaurants, school districts, colleges, daycares, sports/arts venues may each decide for themselves whether or not to require vaccination of their employees and/or patrons.

Limited private mandate: Private mandates permitted only in limited circumstances such as ICU employees/visitors and those living in or working at nursing homes.

Individual choice: No entity may impose any pro or anti vaccination restrictions on anyone.

Anti vax: Government approvals of Covid vaccines should be immediately rescinded.

3 Likes
2

Why are government employers included as part of your private mandate?

If you’re going to go all actuary and “improve” a poll by making clear choices, make sure to separate your cases. Private employers are different than government employers. There should be an option for Private Employer Mandate, Government Employer Mandate, and Private and Government Employer Mandate.

What level of government? Federal, state, local? Should one override the other? If yes, should it be only in one direction and only with looser or stronger restrictions?

Do your mandates include people working from home or attending school remotely?

What is “public transportation”? Does it include Ubers?

Some buildings are multi-use facilities. They contain schools, restaurants, government offices, retail space, and other businesses. Where does such a building land on your list?

Finally, will there be a second poll regarding acceptable methods of verifying vaccination status?

3

Nah, dawg. Keep it in the context of the thread - COVID vaccine, please show your supporting data demonstrating how the viruses behavior changes based on employer. (Hint, the virus doesn’t understand this thing "employer ".)

You can do better.

2 Likes
4

The poll is about mandates, not viruses.

5

Are any of those clarifications going to change your vote from “individual choice”?

1 Like
6

If I choose to vote in this poll, my selection will be private.

1 Like
7

Makes sense to me. Whomever is in charge of that organization, whether CEO or government leader, gets to decide what the mandate is for that same organization. Otherwise you are saying that in the “private mandate” option Lockheed Martin could require mandates but the military could not. Doesn’t make any sense to limit it that way.

2 Likes
8

If it doesn’t make sense to you to limit it that way, then you would not vote that way. But there are plenty of ways we restrict private employers but not government employers, and vice versa. So if the goal is to have an “improved” poll with well-defined separate options, better make sure to separate the options.

9

How about you make your own new poll if you don’t like this one

5 Likes
10

I already made the perfect poll.

1 Like
11

That doesn’t answer my question.

12

If it’s up to the employer, then it’s up to the employer. But sometimes some layer of government steps in and limits the employer’s hand.

In my opinion, the number of people who would feel that a private employer should have the right to enforce a mandate but a government employer should not would be so close to zero that I didn’t include an option.

I had to draw the line somewhere.

I would say any.

Much like pretty much all laws, the most restrictive one applicable for your jurisdiction. If your state requires employees in your industry to be vaccinated but your city does not then you have to be vaccinated per state law. If your state does not require vaccination but your city does then your have to be vaccinated per city law. (Assuming you are an employee somewhere.)

That’s how pretty much all laws work: minimum wage, whether gambling is legal, speed limits, etc.

It would be impossible to capture every possible nuanced difference in a reasonable number of poll choices. I tried to capture major differences. If two people are in absolute agreement about every possible mandate except whether Ubers count as public transportation or not, I would expect they’d make the same poll selection.

:roll_eyes:

Nah, I’m not planning to at the moment.

2 Likes
13

If you want more or better options, build your own poll?

3 Likes
14

Already build the perfect poll.

15

I’m not really sure what my stance is on this. I keep changing my mind.

2 Likes
16

As a conservative - you know, that term that applied to believers of small government before it was ripped off and bastardized over the last 5 years - I voted “private mandate” while recognizing that there may be a need for government to take a role should the private sector not do its job adequately.

I think of “private mandate” as including the government but only as far as the government’s role in employment were it a private sector entity. The government absolutely has the right to tell members of the military what vaccinations they must have, and I think that right (somewhat) extends to other government employees, but only to those directly employed by the government. Not contractors, not subcontractors, not freelancers.

I think “private mandate” allows individuals the right to not comply, but will point out that “freedom to choose” in this respect does not mean “freedom of consequences” should it come to that. Don’t like the requirements an entity imposes? That’s the beautiful thing about a free market: you can go start your own business and run it with whatever requirements you see fit, and others can choose to decide whether they want to support you or not. The fact that barriers to entry may be high is not everyone else’s problem to deal with, nor is it everyone else’s responsibility to accommodate you.

4 Likes
17

I would say that the government should be able to enforce a mandate on government property even if they are not allowed to do so for non-employees.

Like my Dad was a federal contractor for a while. Even if they aren’t allowed to require him to vaccinate to keep his government contract, I would say that they could require it if he is going to set foot in the headquarters of the agency that he was contracting to. Which in his case at the time he was a contractor, would have been necessary to do the work he was doing. So in a roundabout way I think they should be allowed to require this. He shared an office with a federal employee, so if they’re allowed to protect their employees while on the job, then my Dad would need to be vaccinated. (In point of fact he is both retired and pro-vax… just thinking about someone in his situation who didn’t want to be vaxxed.)

But if a government contractor can work entirely from home, then that’s in a different category, IMO.

18

This is where the conservative in me struggles to draw the line. I think I could be sweet-talked into buying this, but I’m reluctant to just throw open the doors and say government, here’s some power, go do your thing and knowing it’s easy to walk down to yeah, you’re interacting with the government in some way? Get vaxxed or get fucked.

19

I think you are just slightly more of a Libertarian than me… but to put it in Libertarian terms… why should my Dad have the right to pollute his office mate’s office, that the federal government provides, with his Covid-germs when he could just as easily get vaccinated?

Doesn’t my Dad’s office mate have the right to not breathe in Covid germs 8 hours a day, 5 days a week? Shouldn’t her employer have the right to protect her from an unvaccinated office-mate?

(Again… hypothetical as my Dad is both retired and pro-vax. But suppose this had happened in the 80s and he was anti-vax.)

20

Libertarian, conservative, … there’s some crossover in the two, but I find it hard to reconcile them with each other. I like to think of the easiest, least intrusive manner to exercise a solution without government having to get involved.

Like I said, I think I can buy your position as long as it fits in the framework of a private-sector solution that doesn’t then expand the government’s role in what private entites can do. Perhaps think of it as a “private mandate that the government chooses to adopt” rather than a government mandate that’s then passed down to the private sector.