Cost him the Mets managerial job IIRC
yeah, I think that is what confused me.
either way, I hold this less against his career than other cheating
Oh. Also, no cheater should get in before Shoeless Joe Jackson is in the hall.
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I am good with Joe being in
Put Joe and Pete in.
Beltran is HOF worthy in my book. Heās got the numbers, 2001-08 was a run of greatness, little hidden in KC. His 2004 playoff performance was career defining. Only thing that keeps him out is the Astros scandalā¦ which I guess is fair the way the writers have been voting.
Iām a big hall guy, Iād put Wagner, Sheffield, Manny and maybe Pettite in. ARod/Bonds/Clemens should also be in, but thatās just me.
The flip side on Beltran 4th was his best MVP finish, career 119 OPS+, only 2 seasons with 150 or better.
He was a guy who did a lot of thing well but nothing great.
sheffield was terrifying. when NY played boston, I was always worried if sheff was at the plate.
then he wrote this and I loved it his response to waiving his no trade from Florida.
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We have done this a number of times, butā¦
The HoF is a museum. Joe & Pete deserve to be in that museum.
Pete however, has a problem, he has not addressed and should be nowhere around the game in a professional or advisory capacity
Wagner?? Billy the reliever?
As for the Steroid guys, I classify by those who used before it was illegal, those who would be in without using and those who knowingly violated the rules. And I am fully aware, somoen from each category has probably been admitted from each category.
I would also put in McGriff, Belle, Allen & Hernandez
Wagner? You can make a pretty good case that heās the best LH RP in baseball history.
2.31 ERA, 187 ERA+, 0.998 WHIP, 11.9 K/9, 422 SV are all outstanding career marks.
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McGriff & Allen for sure.
Belle & Hernandez are closer calls.
watching Hernandez play 1st base leaves me no doubt.
If Brooks & Ozzie can be in 95% based on glove, so should Keith
as for Wagner, I was clarifying not questioning.
Though I am not sure I would include him, reliever is so hard to evaluate
Ozzie is in a class by himself defensively. Especially given the SS position he played.
I do think Hernandez probably should be in the HoF, his offensive stats are good, though not outstanding compared to other HoF 1Bs, but a strong case can be made for him as best defensive 1b ever on top of well above average offensive production. Oddly, BR dWAR does not really like Kieth. Only +1.3 career dWar.
Belle is a guy who if he didnāt get injured probably makes it. Heās also in a somewhat suspect group steriodwise. I donāt think heās ever been directly linked so Iād give him the benefit of the doubt but given his era, some of his teammates, along with his physique there are potential red flags. Oh and unlike Hernandez his defense is big minus.
The top 3 historical for 1B are all before the modern era and the highest ever is a 6.3
so would take a lot of work to actually compare (Mattingly is a -6.2, Grace -5, Olerud -1.4)
found it
Not a lot of names from this era, and one of the few names I recognize (Ken Youklis, played half his games at other positions and those are included)
| Rk | Name | dWAR |
|---|---|---|
| ā¼ | ||
| 1 | Roger Connor HOF | 6.3 |
| 2 | Cap Anson HOF | 5 |
| 3 | Charlie Comiskey HOF | 4.6 |
| 4 | Fred Tenney | 4 |
| 5 | Perry Werden | 3.6 |
| 6 | Jeff King | 3.2 |
| 7 | Frank Chance HOF | 2.9 |
| 8 | Joe Start | 2.8 |
| 9 | Jack Boyle | 2.5 |
| 10 | Herman Dehlman | 2.1 |
| 11 | Milt Scott | 1.9 |
| 12 | Kevin Youkilis | 1.7 |
| 13 | Joshua Fuentes | 1.6 |
| 14 | John Morrill | 1.5 |
| 15 | Sid Farrar | 1.5 |
| 16 | Chub Sullivan | 1.4 |
| 17 | Keith Hernandez | 1.3 |
| 18 | Daric Barton | 1.2 |
| 19 | Dave Orr | 1.1 |
| 20 | Matt Olson | 1 |
| 21 | John Ganzel | 1 |
| 22 | Harry Taylor | 1 |
| 23 | John Kerins | 0.8 |
| 24 | Jumbo Schoeneck | 0.8 |
| 25 | Jiggs Donahue | 0.7 |
| 26 | George Stovall | 0.6 |
| 27 | Willie Clark | 0.6 |
| 28 | Ivan Howard | 0.6 |
| 29 | Nick Evans | 0.5 |
| 30 | Wally Pipp | 0.4 |
| 31 | Max Muncy | 0.4 |
| 32 | Tim Harkness | 0.3 |
| 33 | Jumbo Latham | 0.3 |
| 34 | Ryan Shealy | 0.3 |
| 35 | Travis Ishikawa | 0.2 |
| 36 | Brett Pill | 0.2 |
| 37 | Jim Carleton | 0.2 |
| 38 | Dan McGann | 0.1 |
| 39 | Chick Gandil | 0.1 |
| 40 | Bill Pierce | 0.1 |
| 41 | Charlie Householder | 0.1 |
| 42 | Bill Sweeney | 0.1 |
| 43 | Merv Connors | 0.1 |
| 44 | Mike Schemer | 0.1 |
| 45 | Pedro Arango | 0.1 |
| 46 | Joe Ware | 0.1 |
| 47 | Wally Andrews | 0.1 |
| 48 | Christian Walker | 0 |
| 49 | Curtis Harris | 0 |
| 50 | Bill LeFebvre | 0 |
| 51 | Peek-A-Boo Veach | 0 |
| 52 | Josh Satin | 0 |
| 53 | Clipper Flynn | 0 |
| 54 | Jack McMahon | 0 |
| 55 | Alfonso Rivas | 0 |
| 56 | Jake Goodman | 0 |
| 57 | Charlie Hautz | 0 |
This name caught my eye so I looked him up just for fun. Played in 100 games from 1884-1890. Baseball reference does show him as 0 career dWar, which appears to be for all positions. However, looks like he only played 73 games at 1B and made 23 errors there. Thatās awful. He played 14 games in the OF with 3 errors, 13 as pitcher with 4 errors, and 1 game at 2B with no errors. This guy sounds like butterfingers. Maybe thereās something wrong with their old timer dWar calculation?
I guess dWar just does not like 1B!
Fun fact: Roger Conner held the record for Career Home Runs before Babe Ruth broke the record 576 times.
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Fitting he ended up #17 on the list.
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Add this to the TIL category:
I decided to dig a little more, and all of the MLB leaders for most errors in a season were in the late 1800ās. There are 16 seasons of players with 100 errors or more. Herman Long has the record of 122 in a season. In his career he made 1096 errors in 1882 games. I knew they wore tiny gloves back then so perhaps that accounts for some of the error frequency, but I was surprised the error frequency was that extreme. I withdraw my comment that the dWar algorithm for the old timers might have a problem. It appears everyone were usually shitty fielders, so dWar is positive for just being awful instead of horrific.
It doesnāt look like dWar for old timers should be compared to modern players due to extreme differences in fielding % and errors
I would also think grounds keeping was poorer and inconsistent
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