Spoilers from S2E5 and Book 4, and speculation/rumor about S3
In S2E5, Perrin noticing Aviendha in the cage is when Bornhald Jr meets Perrin. He recognizes some of his gear as being in the Two Rivers style, thereby granting Perrin that nickname.
In Book 4, Padan Fain convinces the head of the Whitecloaks to send a legion to the Two Rivers to root out darkfriends. Junior volunteers to lead the crew hoping to encounter this man (Perrin) whom he has been told was somehow involved in his father’s death.
It’s been rumored/leaked that there will be a return to the Two Rivers in Season 3, which is supposed to more-or-less cover Book 4. I’m guessing that the rewritten events for Season 2 will be the motivation Junior needs to head back to Emonds Field. If I’m correct, that’s a more plausible way to tell this part of the story than the books used.
OK, so in the books the hatred for Perrin from Jr is incorrect hearsay about Perrin killing Sr. In the show, Child Varna (did I get that right?) attacks Perrin, Hopper attacks Child Varna, Sr Attacks & kills Hopper, and Jr sees Perrin kill Sr. Hatred established on a more circuitous but arguable more direct chain of events.
I still don’t get who & where Elayne gets to be queen of someday vs. who Barthanes was supposed to marry.
In general, there are too many characters who are not really explained out. I cannot even remember them all of why some of them are significant. Like, I completely don’t understand who that guy was that was fighting with Perrin’s group that was dressed as a Seanchan, and why do I care? He must have been completely forgettable in the 1 scene he was in sometime earlier. Ingtar was his name maybe?
And while I guess that perhaps a lot of the intrigue in the books is around the unraveling the mysteries of the different groups (like who plays for more than 1 bad guy team), for the show watchers it is freaking annoying to try to decipher what the heck these groups of bad guys are doing or how they are motivated and/or overlapping and conflicting with each other
The Dark One (the devil himself)
The Forsaken (and it was not explained that these are also called the Chosen) adn why are the internally antagonistic and not unified?
I would have said Ishy, but now Ishy sleeps with the fishies.
Darkfriends
Seanchan
The Children of the Light (Whitecloaks - at least the double name was mentioned somewhere)
Black Ajah
Lanfear herself - and why is the new spiderweb chick so up in her business? Aren’t they like on the same team?
And upon rewatching 2.08, Mat was quite careless when he first saw Perrin. Like, He dude, let’s hug it out and don’t mind that I am clumsily walking around with this evil enchanted knife on a stick that could drive you insane if you even accidentally touch it. I prolly won’t touch you with it, maybe. At least I don’t mean to. Sorry if I scraped you a little with it.
Elayne is the daughter-heir of Andor. Barthanes is the grandson of a former king of a neighboring country, Cairhien; in the show he is marrying Galladrian, Queen of Cairhien.
I think there are something like 2600 named characters in the books; there’s a separate companion book that’s just an encyclopedia of the various people and places named through the 15 books. The show completely nerfed Ingtar’s story.
Significant book spoilers re Ingtar
In the books, Lord Ingtar is a darkfriend. He swore to the dark because he perceived humanity as failing, and he hoped that the dark would provide the means for him to reverse that. This is one of 2-3 instances where a darkfriend in the books is described as having a motivation beyond the to-be-expected power, riches, or immortality motivations for most book darkfriends.
In the books, Ingtar is the person who let the baddies into Fal Dara which resulted in the horn being stolen. His death in the battle of Falme was portrayed as a redemptive act in the books
The Forsaken are called “Forsaken” by normal people, but they call themselves “Chosen” as in “we were chosen by the Dark One to rule the planet”. As you might expect of such folks, they squabble in a quest to gain more power, or to be designated the leader of their group, becoming the Dark One’s right hand in the world. The show has Ishamael as the leader of the Forsaken for now, but in the future…
Significant book spoiler and speculation about future seasons
In the books Ishy gets better. I would expect the show’s going to bring him back.
In the books, the only way to really, permanently kill anyone the Dark One doesn’t want killed is to completely burn them from the pattern using balefire, which is essentially a powerful use of the One Power that we haven’t seen yet in the series. I’m not certain the show is going to go there, however.
…are just minions of the Dark One. In S1 and S2, they’re pawns of Ishamael and eventually Lanfear. Presumably they’ll also be used as pawns by the other Forsaken now that they’re free. In the books we see examples of some darkfriends being given conflicting orders from different Forsaken, and having to deal with the inconsistencies.
…are just foreigners from overseas, who treat their channelers differently than the inhabitants of Randland. They aren’t inherently darkfriends, although High Lady Suroth is quite clearly a darkfriend in their ranks
Consider a certain religious group based in Utah. Officially, it’s the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”, but they’re commonly called Mormons. Same general idea when it comes to “Children of the Light” and “Whitecloaks”…except there aren’t multiple denominations of Children of the Light, and “Whitecloak” is considered a pejorative term.
They’re a hybridization of Knights Templar, Fundamentalist Christian, and the Spanish Inquisition. In Randland they seek to root out darkfriends and to prepare to lead the world to fight the Dark One at the Last Battle. Thing is, they think everyone who doesn’t fit their fundamentalist views (which include a prohibition on chanelling) is a darkfriend…
Whitecloaks as a whole are not darkfriends, although in the books a prominent whitecloak is one of the more competent darkfriends.
Aes Sedai who are darkfriends. From the show, we already know that Lindarin is a darkfriend. In the show, we have met at least two other Aes Sedai who are eventually revealed in the books to also be darkfriends.
Significant book spoilers and speculation/leak on Season 3
Next season, we are apparently going to be introduced to an Aes Sedai named Elaida. In Book 4, Elaida leads a coup and overthrows Siuan, and rumors have it that this will also occur in Season 3.
In the books, Elaida is an antagonist introduced in Book 1 who gets under Rand, Egwene, Nyneave, and Elayne’s skin, and the girls spend a lot of energy trying to prove their suspicion that Elaida is a darkfriend. In the books, at least, Elaida isn’t a darkfriend. She’s just a very unpleasant woman who is inflexible in her worldview and quest for power.
Lanfear is one of the Forsaken. The spiderweb chick is Moghedien, another of the Forsaken.
Despite having been Chosen to be the Dark One’s leaders in the world, they have different motivations (most of which are not explored in the books). Ishamael is a philosopher, who has grown tired of the cycle of history repeating itself. He wants to break the wheel of time, and end it all. Lanfear is obsessed with her love of the Dragon, and will do literally anything if she thinks it might win his heart back to her. The show hasn’t had enough time to go into Moghedien’s motivations; in the books, there isn’t much discussion about her motivations, but the companion book suggests that she was merely tired of being overlooked and ignored.
They’re all on Team Dark, but they all also want to control Team Dark and wouldn’t hate there being less competition for the Dark One’s favor. So, they will scheme and plot against one another to further their own goals. They only work together when commanded to do so by the Dark One, or if they see cooperation as being beneficial towards their own goals.
There’s a lot in the books…but since I enjoy the details (specifically detailed world-building), that’s how I got sucked into them. But I can empathize; there are other series where I got lost in the maze of names, and didn’t keep up because of frustration and confusion. For some reason, Wheel of Time and Lord of the Rings stuck with me, but other series like Game of Thrones/Song of Ice and Fire didn’t really.
WoT Season 1 didn’t give me high hopes about the show’s ability to respect the detail provided in the books. Season 2 was better, although it still suffers from Amazon’s constraints and limited budget.
I am not an avid reader. In younger days, I had more time and patience for reading. But for one example, I tried reading the Eragon series (aka the Inheritance Cycle) and gave up in book 2 because the names of people and places were just too effing weird, long, and confusing.
Thanks for the re-re-explanations M_S. Again, without outside help keeping this straight, I don’t think there’s enough character explanations, development, etc to really understand the basic story.
Also, If you haven’t read the books, it’s weird that they keep referring to Rand as “LOSE” which seems incongruous. The good guy should be “Winner-Winner-Chicken-Dinner” not “Loser-Rand”
BTW, Eragon is supposedly getting a reboot on Dis+
It’s actually “Lews”; I forget that not everyone has close captions enabled on their screens. Interestingly, I had thought/processed the name as Lewis up until I noticed the pronunciation and captioning in the show. (In the original audiobooks, it sounds more like “Louis”, except contracted into a single syllable.)
Lews Therin was the given name for the Dragon at the end of the prior age. His name was dropped in, I think, S1E1 or S1E2, and he’s been the lead male for the cold opens in S1E8 and S2E8.
I think one of the critical differences between WoT and GoT is that Amazon’s only been letting the WoT folks pace the show to cover 14 big books in 8 seasons of 8 1-hour episodes, while GoT covered the first 6 books in 6 seasons of 10 episodes, and then Book 7 in 7 slightly longer episodes, and forcing a resolution in Season 8. Having less material and more time to cover it seems to have worked (at least for 7 seasons).
In the books, Rand meets Elayne wayyyyyy before this, in Andor, which explains a lot of things the TV viewer is missing out on currently, particularly the semi-political influence between Andor and Tar Valon.
And can we have a side discussion about WTF is all about KWAYNE-dee-yar?
I went back and watched all of 1.08 and it got mentioned at the very end. Moiraine says “Look, its a hunk of Kwaynedeeyar” Lan says “What does that mean” and Moiraine answers “it means this is the end of season 1!”
Then in 2.08 Lanfear tells some rando who we may or may not have ever seen before that she is going to give him 6 hunks of KDY is throw in the ocean.
It that the stuff that Rand little billiken statue was made of? Whatever happened to his little billiken?
Also, from rewatching 1.08, it was not made clear, even upon knowing all of season 2, that the guy Rand was dealing with at the ying/yang prison was Ishy and not TDO himself. Also also, it was not made clear that Rand did anything to release Ishy. What was made clear was that Rand chose the light side of the force and not the sith dark side of the force. [frog voice] “Hmmmm. for the light side, he will fight” [/frog voice]
Didn’t Mat, carrying the Horn of Valear remind you of Jonah Hill carrying around the jug of beer in a laundry soap bottle in Superbad?
Cuendillar is the mineral from which the seals of the forsaken are made. It’s supposed to be unbreakable, but obvs not. Also some of the powerful artifact stuff is made from it. The show has glazed over any explanation, so I don’t think this is spoiling anything.
In the books, the seals on the Dark One’s prison were made from cuendillar, the strongest manmade substance known. It’s defining characteristic is that even the One Power can’t break cuendillar; the One Power just makes it stronger. So, in the books, when the seals start being found broken, or flaking away, it’s a sign that the evil of the Dark One is starting to leak out of his prison, and bad things will be happening soon.
(Note that the seals and the imprisoning of the Forsaken are being handled completely differently in the show than in the books. I think the changes make for better TV, but they haven’t had the time to rebuild the lore to fully explain what’s going on.)
Back to the books…at this point in the books, the world has forgotten how to make cuendillar. However, there are many other assorted items made of cuendillar that date back to the Age of Legends, 3000 years ago, in the world. They’re trinkets that are currently viewed as objects of art, and they’re incredibly valuable. The books include the story of how a fisherman pulled up a small piece of cuendillar off the sea floor, and for months afterword fishermen from the area spent all their time trying to find more cuendillar on the seafloor, rather than trying to catch fish, because cuendillar is THAT valuable.
Actually, we have met that rando before. That was Bayle Domon. He was introduced in the show in 2.01. In that episode, he was the Captain who “sold” to Moiraine the piece of parchment with the dark prophecy revealing that Lanfear was loose in the world, as well as providing other updates of what all was going on in the world. He has a more significant role in the books, but so far the show seems to be tossing him in to make book fans
In the books, Bayle shows up in a few places, carrying the story forward. Among other things, he is a collector of old things, including various bits of cuendillar that he has found in his travels including one of the seals, which we are led to believe causes him to attract attention from the forsaken.
In 2.08, that scene of Lanfear telling Bayle that she wanted him to drop those things in the middle of the ocean was mostly an easter egg for the book readers, since in Book 5, I think, Bayle is given a similar charge to drop something into the ocean…a bit of plot that will probably not make it into the show. But it’s also meant as an indication in the show that Lanfear is willing to work against Ishy by having the six unbroken seals dropped in the middle of the ocean, making it extremely difficult for Ishy to release the other forsaken, therefore protecting Rand somewhat (and hopefully furthering her quest to win his undying love).
I don’t understand these questions.
Correct. In the books, Rand doesn’t realize that he’s only been doing battle with one of the Forsaken until, I think, the end of Book 3 when Ishy is clearly identified as Ishy. Until that point, he’s been identified at Ba’alzamon, which translates as “heart of the dark”, and which Randlanders thought was the Trolloc name for the Dark One…and thus Rand was convinced that he had defeated the Dark One twice (at the end of Book 1, at the Eye of the World; and again at the end of Book 2, in the skies over Falme).
In the books, at the end of Book 1, Moiraine seems to know that it wasn’t the Dark One that Rand defeated, although it’s not clear who it was. But I guess the showrunners wanted to add some uncertainty for the show.
That it might have been Rand that set Ishy free in 1.08 is an interesting variation on the books, because in several of the books, after Rand enters his “Darth Rand” phase, there’s quite a bit of tension and suspense when readers are led to wonder whether Rand, in his madness, will intentionally break the remaining seals and unleash the Dark One on the world.
Big book spoiler within
Book-Rand actually does end up breaking the remaining seals, but not out of madness; it’s demo before starting renovations on the Dark One’s prison at the Last Battle. In his madness he knew what needed to be done, but in his madness, everyone else, including the readers, was extremely unsure.
However, I suspect that show viewers are not supposed to be certain that Show-Rand did actually release Ishy. Uncertainty and arguing over different theories regarding unanswered questions was one of the hallmarks of WoT fandom while the books were coming out. The show has enough folks that lived through that period on staff that I think they’re interested trying to create/preserve that for the show.
Moderate book spoiler within
Sadly, it looks like they won’t have Asmodean in the show. In the books, he’s a forsaken who Rand just barely defeats but doesn’t kill; Lanfear mostly shields him, and tells a few stories basically forcing Asmodean to become Rand’s teacher. Eventually, Asmodean is murdered…and fandom spent years asking “who killed Asmodean?” We didn’t find out until a passing comment was made in Book 14…and some of us were surprised that that loose end was taken care of by Brandon Sanderson. I wouldn’t have been surprised, had Robert Jordan lived to complete the series, if RJ would have left that question unanswered.
A billikin is a little good luck statue, and the namesake of St. Louis University.
In 1.08 Moiraine gave Rand a little statue and told him to channel through the little statue and his power would increase 100 fold. Seems like he would want to keep track of something like a 100X power multiplier, but he seems to have lost it in season 2. SHe called it something like “Sangria”.
I was calling the Sangria a billikin, because they are both little Asian inspired, good luck statue dudes.
Now I remember Moiraine giving Rand something in S1E08. I don’t know whether that was just an easter egg for book fans, or if it’s going to come up later.
Was it a sa’angrael?
In the books, there are three kinds of objects of power:
Angrael are tokens that buff a channeler’s ability to wield the One Power. Some can be used by women, while others can be used by men. Moiraine carries one as a standard piece of her equipment for the first several books. Rand starts carrying one in Book 5, I believe.
Sa’angrael are like Angrael, but at least an order of magnitude stronger. At the end of Book 4, Rand gets the keys to the most powerful Sa’angrael ever created…and that drives a couple of other story lines later in the books.
And then we have ter’angrael. They’re gadgets that can use the power for various purposes. They come in different shapes and sizes, and have an assorted set of functions. In the show, we’ve seen The Three Rings, used in the tests Aes Sedai to raise women to Accepted, and the a’dam are a form of ter’angrael. The Aes Sedai have, at this point in the books, forgotten how to make ter’angrael. In the books, Elayne eventually figures out how to make them; we saw a foreshadowing of this in S2 when she was studying an a’dam.
All three are rare. However sa’angrael are rarer than angrael.
Thinking about it… it probably was a sa’angrael in the show. I remember being annoyed/frustrated that they just threw that into the mix, since it’s unlikely that the Tower would have let Moiraine run around with one of those…if the Tower knew she had one. But they’re so uncommon that it’s unlikely that she would have had one but-for the tower having given it to her.
Huh. I’ve been wondering this for a minute myself. More motivation to actually make it to book 14. Guess all that training will go the way of swordfighting in the show…ie nonexistent.
I believe it was an item he found in the Waste, and he did use it on more than one occasion, preferring it over the temptations/issues he had with two certain sa’angreal he also gained access to.
My money is on the show having Logain train Rand, but how much of that training is shown, or whether we’re left to infer training remains to be seen.
Given what Rand did in S2E8, I’m concerned that the show might simply gloss over his training going forward. They’ve still got 11 books to cover in the remaining 48 episodes, unless Amazon loosens its restrictions; skipping training allows them more screen time to focus on the arc.
(There was supposed to have been a companion series of shorts, to help fill in the backstory and details being omitted…but that seems to have fallen by the wayside, given how show staff are avoiding answering questions about it.)
Regarding the swordfighting, I think show viewers are supposed to infer that Rand has been tutored by Errol (the Cairhienen veteran that we met where Rand was a caretaker). However, I think the showrunner has said that we should expect to see a scene of Rand training with Lan in Season 3.
Of course, considering Rand’s encounter with Turak in the show…maybe Rand’s skill with the sword just won’t matter so much in future seasons. While it’s a significant element of Rand’s character in the books, it’s not really relevant to the overarching story.
In the books, the Eye of the World is a pool of untainted saidin, formed during the Breaking by a large group of male and female Aes Sedai who gave their lives in the process of creating it and filtering away the Dark One’s taint. That aspect of the Eye apparently didn’t translate to the show, presumably due to CGX budget limitations and/or complications of getting Season 1 done with pandemic restrictions.
In the books, the battle at the Eye went something like this:
Aginor and Balthamel, two of the 13 original Forsaken (who apparently aren’t among the 8 Forsaken in the show), appear, looking rather worse for the wear due to having been close to the surface of the Dark One’s prison and therefore more subject to the ravages of time than the 10 we haven’t yet met at that point in the books. This is a surprise, because our protagonists hadn’t realized any of the Forsaken were loose.
Balthamel is decomposed by Someshta, “the Green Man”, the last of the Nym, who also dies in the process.
Aginor tries to channel the pool of saidin that is the Eye. It’s too much for him to handle; he burns up, becoming just an ash pile.
Ba’alzamon, whom we come later to know is Ishamael (or “Ishy” in fandom), appears, and there’s an epic battle between he and Rand, projected into the sky above Tarwin’s Gap (where soldiers from Fal Dara are battling a trolloc army), with Rand somehow coming out victorious, presumably because fate (excuse me, the Wheel) forces that outcome.
Rand returns, and we discover that Lews Therin’s banner and the Horn of Valere were also being stored in the Eye, hidden by the pool of saidin.
As far as I know, book-Rand didn’t have assistance at the Eye, beyond instinct brought forward from his past life, dumb luck, and/or being ta’veren. The reader is left to guess which is the case.
