People. Kids.
And if their condition is directly relevant to the discussion:
People with disabilities. Kids with cognitive challenges.
** Note that I’m pretty sure that you’re not intending insults; but we do need to respond to these situations (no matter who is doing it) so that we’re consistent for when it appears to be used as an insult.
My position is that 13/14 year olds aren’t developmentally ready to be kicked out of school and hold down a job in general, IQ aside.
People with an IQ below 90 make up about 25% of the population. The high school dropout rate is around 5%. Does not compute.
I’m sure you’re smart enough to figure it out.
Yeah the bottom 2% has a lot of folks who struggle to function due to various mental deficiencies.
Yeah, it can really vary.
Two of the kids in D’s class can’t really talk at all, though they do understand speech & w/ iPads & certain apps can communicate some things.
To quote myself:
I attended my son’s “Moving Up” ceremony (for 8th grade to high school…. but he’ll be in the same self-contained special education classroom), and all of the students I saw have been greatly benefited by current technology, not only in entertaining themselves, but also to communicate with the wider world. I watched a few of the students use specialized apps on iPads today to be able to communicate their feelings, and I laughed at some of the jokes they cracked via these methods.
A lot of the students have profound cognitive disabilities, and my own son shares in these. While he can physically talk, being able to interact with iPad and Kindle interfaces has provided some additional control over his world. It’s not about being able to work — it’s just being able to enjoy life in a way that many others can.
I don’t really understand how you are trying to support your argument here
They are too stupid to work, lock them up in a classroom instead?
The sooner you start working the sooner you can begin developing your adult life skills, I think that is more valuable to those kids than a formal education.
I just pulled the number 90 out of the air (it seemed low enough to me). School administrators can raise or lower that number accordingly.
While the high school drop out rate is only 5%, I believe people who graduate in the bottom 10-15% of their high school class get little to no benefit from there supposed “education”. Unless of course it is an usual situation where they are an elite magnet school grad. May as well set the kids struggling in school free early, I doubt they want to be in school anyways.
Quote me where I said anyone was too stupid to work.
Do you know, like really know well, anyone with a low IQ? Have you ever met someone who had disabilities that would make it difficult for a standardized test to adequately assess their abilities? There’s a lot of gray area that either you don’t realize exists or you’re willfully ignoring.
Also, do the high schools around you not have vocational tracks? I thought that was something that was available everywhere, but maybe not.
okay I guess I interpreted “not developmentally ready” a really lib PC way of saying stupid
I don’t need a test to quantify if someone is too stupid to function (graduate high school), but having a clear cut measure is useful for eliminating any sort of “gray” area
We have separate voc-tech schools that students test into/apply for
But truly stupid kids have no hope of graduating from a vocation school, so I still think it is a poor fit for them
So, the answers to my questions are both no and I would also guess that you have very little experience with kids at all. Maybe as a fun uncle, but with no heavy lifting. Me talking about what is developmentally appropriate is parent-speak, not “lib PC.” Was this conversation you trying to “own me”? If so, LOL at your attempt to wing it.
When I say that 13/14 year olds aren’t developmentally ready to be kicked out of school and hold down a job, I’m not talking about intelligence at all. Most 13/14 year olds could easily learn how to stock shelves or work a cash register. I’m saying that they’re not ready from a social-emotional standpoint. And I’m talking about 13/14 year olds across the IQ distribution, not specifically the lower quartile.
I think it’s best to wind this conversation down because we’re not speaking the same language.
so you are saying all 13/14 year olds have low EQ?
I still don’t understand your argument that 13/14 are unable to hold down a job/conversation. What does social-emotional development have to do with holding down a minimum wage job? What are they expected to do that they can’t handle? You don’t need full development of anything to hold down a low skill job.
But I agree this side convo should end. The purpose of this thread was to share our IQ scores to which I realized you never shared and just posted troll posts. I got baited. You win
The “quotient” is to typical scores for people of the same age. At least, that was how IQ was originally designed, perhaps it’s changed. So no, 13 year olds don’t have a low “EQ”, but they have a hell of a lot less emotional maturity than 16 year olds.
Despite that, i think a lot of 13 year olds could hold down a job, and benefit from the independence that would give them. If we didn’t have a rich history of child labor being exploited, along with lots of international examples of it, I’d probably favor encouraging many younger teens to work.
If you think I’m trolling, you should report my posts. I stand by everything I said.
To be clear, BBB is suggesting that 13/14 year olds should be kicked out of school and enter the workforce, not just get a supplementary part time job.
Well, i certainly don’t support kicking low IQ kids out of the educational system. I do think we may push more kids into academics than is actually helpful. Our whole public school system was geared towards a different age and jury-rigged for the more technological age we’ve found ourselves in. I’m sure we could come up with something that better serves more kids. I’m not sure what that would like like, though.
…that having to describe humans with lower intelligence or cognitive handicaps in non-insulting ways is lib PC stuff. since we are all here able to type and carry on this conversation, BBB seems put out that we have to use humane terms to describe humans blessed with less than what we (in this conversation) have.
Humane terms, please. Are they animals or refugees?
Why does it appear so exhausting for you to dance around and avoid saying anything remotely non-pc. “Humans with lower intelligence/humans with cognitive handicaps” feels like I am reading a research paper, it sounds like you are teaching in a lecture hall full of privileged college kids. Can we just go back to calling morons, morons and stupid people, stupid? (Behind their backs and never to their faces, of course)
To me it seems like feel good/holier than thou thing to do, so yes I go ahead and slop it in the PC bucket of things forced upon society.
This is a thread where we are sharing our IQs. Please share and let’s get this discussion back on track 
i already shared my estimate of mine.
sorry you find it hard to separate being decent and convenience.
i reserve stupid and moron for people who have a clear established level of intelligence but somehow manage to make bad choices that suggest laziness, selfishness, or willful ignorance are their thing. i can think of one (1) poster right now who I might apply those terms to.
The exercise is left to the readers.
I don’t have much of a problem using terms like “idiot” or “moron” when talking about individuals, or even specific groups of people. I have an issue with using them for classes of people though.
I try to treat people with kindness and compassion. If I would be embarrassed to say it to their face, why should I say it behind their back? I’m always trying to be better in that department.
And punching down is just lazy. Stepping on the vulnerable doesn’t make you seem stronger, it makes you pathetic.
Also, “force”? I don’t agree with that.