It’s not unimpactful to the trans kids that get to compete with their own gender, such that they know the society they live in accepts and supports them. It is unimpactful to the sport as a whole, because there just aren’t that many trans athletes compared to the number of athletes in total.
It’s a basic human right to compete in women’s sports?
Hey, stressing about exam results and debating highly divisive topics without any impact is what we do here
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It’s a basic human right to be treated equally and with dignity and respect.
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I think you’ve moved the goalposts
I disagree. My participation in this thread was merely to point out that the “men will fake being trans women to get this benefit” is a harmful myth perpetuated by transphobes and TERFs to try to force trans women out of all kind of spaces they belong in, including participating in sports. But it’s not just about sports. The same argument is used to deny trans women access to health care, restrooms, educational opportunities, homeless shelters, etc, many of which are more consequential than high school sports. But attempting to force trans kids to compete with the incorrect gender assigned at birth, while seemingly minor to you, it’s a indicator to those trans kids that society rejects them, and that is a major cause of the 40%+ attempted suicide rate for trans people.
Protecting trans rights does not increase the incidence of men being creeps and harming women, nor does it harm cis women’s opportunities. It just makes for a better, more inclusive society.
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And yes, I’m included in that 41%. It was a long time ago back in high school, and it’s not crossed my mind in decades, but living as the wrong gender going through puberty is awful stuff.
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but that isn’t what I said. I never said they would actually compete or gain a benefit.
I’ll agree with both MH and PZ.
No one is going to actually be able to game the system. An no one is going to seriously try.
I do think you will have some trumpian idiots who try to push it though, to own the libs. In a country of 330 million people and a million of them lawyers, it will be easy to find someone to make a headline in order to validate a right wing transphobic myth. So we deal with it when it happens, and move on as if it hadn’t.
I think we’re arguing slippery slope here. I think one can be reluctant to accept trans women into women’s sports while also thinking it absurd trans women would be denied access to healthcare, etc. Those things are of vastly different consequence.
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No, we aren’t. Trans women ARE women. Trans men ARE men. Trans women have just as much right to be in women’s spaces as cis women, just like trans men have just as much right to be in men’s spaces as cis men. Drawing lines about what rights trans people are allowed to have is harmful.
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I don’t think anyone has a right to play high school/professional/etc. sports. I think we just disagree about defining what a “right” is.
If you are going to use taxpayer money to offer sports to students, everyone should be allow to compete in them in a non-discriminatory and harmful way. If you want to argue that they can get rid of the sports teams entirely – sure, that’s a valid option. And for private schools, they can have any rules they want to have. But public schools have to follow non-discrimination laws, so if they offer sports, then trans students should be able to compete with their gender.
If it’s not a right, would it be OK to kick all the black players off the team? If not, I think you have your answer.
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are you arguing Blacks are physically superior or that Trans-Women are not.
If Caitlyn Jenner competed in 1976 against women, I don’t believe it could be said that is a fair competition.
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Is this directed to me? If so, huh? I commented on neither.
the first sentence is directed at you. The implication is either Blacks can be excluded as athletically superior, Trans should be included as athletically equal. Or the fairness of competition is unimportant and this is just discrimination.
You read my comment in a completely different way than intended. I was not commenting on ability at all. I was providing a racially discriminatory example as a counterpoint to NormalDan’s premise that playing sports is not a right.
ETA: I’ve added his quote to my original post to make it clear.
I expect that I’ll be telling my grandkids about how we used to have sexually seggregated washrooms in the same tone of voice as a white’s only drinking fountain. I’m as comfortable in a mens-only washroom as the next person, but if I had to justify it I can’t. Not without sounding really really weird. It’s one of those things if you start fresh,here’s a washroom and now start to argue why you need two in order to seperate people by their jiggly bits.
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I wonder if women were given a vote on whether to merge all restrooms how the results would come out. I think people reluctant to change would assume women would not be in favor, but it’d definitely be interesting to know.