Today I learned

[vjvj]

@SteveGrondin

I don’t have the freedom to change it if I get a lot of folks to agree? Doesn’t sound like the America I grew up in.

And that was one of the more important things our founding fathers thought was important enough to include in the Constitution.

[dr_t_non-fan]

@SpaceLobster

Remind me again how free trans people are right now. Or pregnant women.

“They are free to do whatever we want them to do.”

[Maphistos_Sidekick]

@SpaceLobster

Really, in practice, Americans don’t have any more freedoms than the rest of the western world, and maybe less. They just seem to yell about it a lot louder.

Amen.

@SpaceLobster

In Canada, the right to ‘live’ is guaranteed by our healthcare.

Curiously, healthcare considerations were a major reason I didn’t act on an opportunity to move to Québec a few years ago.

[BG5150]

You don’t HAVE to respect the US flag or anthem, but you will lose mine if you don’t.

[SteveGrondin]

Your opinion is pretty low on the list of things I have respect for. I’d much rather respect fundamental human rights and the rule of law.

[quoll]

As a relative newcomer to these parts, I am very impressed with both the US flag design and the national anthem - they’re both excellent. Australia has a mediocre flag and national anthem, so it’s a lot easier to not get caught up in nationalism.

[NerdAlert]

In that case, I imagine there are many other areas we disagree on where I would have already lost your respect ten times over.

How does a lack of respect manifest in this situation?

[The_Polymath]

@Maphistos_Sidekick

Curiously, healthcare considerations were a major reason I didn’t act on an opportunity to move to Québec a few years ago.

Not well versed on the Quebec system, bit I assume specialty care is not great in terms of waiting in line?

[SpaceLobster]

@The_Polymath

bit I assume specialty care is not great in terms of waiting in line?

We always see so much about how the American healthcare system is so great, but I think in practice for almost everyone, it might be, best case, comparabable to Canadian and other similiar systems. Just that they have to pay their own premiums.

I think it’s also hugely worse for lower income folks, and is only actually better for those who are actually wealthy - so not typical Americans with income.

tl;dr all the promotion of how great US healthcare is, really only applies to the uber wealthy for the most part IMO. Like, you can pay for better care, but does anyone actually? Not really. We have waiting queues in Canada…turns out, they do in the US (And fwiw, I don’t recall ever waiting on anything. I call, I get in the next day. i need a typical test, I get it next day. I need something more substantial, I might have to wait 2-3 weeks. Probably the same in the US).

And if a canadian wants ‘paid’ care, they can, just like an American. They can just go to the US and pay the exact same amount as an American.

[NumericalNeuroticism]

@quoll

Australia has a mediocre flag and national anthem

Obligatory Adam Hills video

[Mathman]

US healthcare is pretty bad for poor folks - those covered by Medicaid. Some/many providers don’t accept Medicaid (reimbursement rates are low), so you can’t see every doctor. Copays are, however, very low - you might pay $5 for a prescription. State budgets are tight (some funds are federal), so when the Hep C drugs came out, they were either not covered or rationed, so you have these types of issues to deal with.

Those of us with insurance through an employer are also usually restricted on which docs you can see (they have to be ‘in network’), but in general you have more flexibility. Costs are all over the board, and more and more they are cracking down on drug costs by just not covering certain drugs. My wife gets expensive medication for migraines, and every year they change what is and what is not covered based on which drug is cheaper for them. Prior authorization is a huge mess right now, it’s very frustrating for people who are sick and interact with the system for more than minor visits.

Somewhat anecdotally, I’ve heard for some/many/most (not sure) that some elective procedures like joint replacements are worse in Canada, in terms of average wait times. But yep, a lot of specialists are backlogged for months and wait times here can be long. Varies by region, by specialty, my wife has waited 3+ months on multiple occasions to see a specialist.

[dr_t_non-fan]

As with all businesses: “You want it free? You want it now? You want it good? Pick two.”

[Maphistos_Sidekick]

@The_Polymath

Not well versed on the Quebec system, bit I assume specialty care is not great in terms of waiting in line

I understand that getting a “permanent”/regular GP is a problem in Québec right now (and with the complexity of my wife’s health finding a doctor that she likes and can take the time to understand what’s going on with her is important)…but at the time, the specific concern we had is that one of my wife’s implants wasn’t even available/approved by Health Canada, so monitoring would be a problem.

For most people without special needs, I suspect Canadian care is fine, and superior to the US’s on economic grounds. Staffing levels are a concern in Canadian healthcare, but I believe it is variable by geography…and the same can be said about US healthcare in places (especially given recent constraints on immigration).

US healthcare is great if you are someplace you can access it and have a way to pay for it.

Canadian healthcare is great if you are someplace you can access it

The situations where I would say that US healthcare is “better”, but they’re likely a more limited set of circumstances than some would claim…and my wife’s situation falls in one of those situations.

[Cooke]

@Mathman

Those of us with insurance through an employer are also usually restricted on which docs you can see (they have to be ‘in network’)

I have always viewed this as a major negative in the US healthcare system. I have the freedom to use any doctor or hospital that I choose to: no insurance company dictates whom I can select from.

[The_Polymath]

Do you still need a referral from your GP to see a specialist in Canada?

[dr_t_non-fan]

@Cooke

I have the freedom to use any doctor or hospital that I choose to

Some day. Get on the waiting list.

[The_Polymath]

Your comment reminded me of this woman from Linkedin:

[Maphistos_Sidekick]

I will observe that horror stories about “rationing” and “long waits” are frequently raised by American supporters in the comparisons of US healthcare vs Canada’s and England’s.

I suspect, however, that those issues aren’t too bad for most in practice (which is fine unless/until you/yours end up being the exceptions), and the reality that for certain specialties, in certain places of the US, you can face very long waits.

I had been tempted to point out that, where I am in the US, I can almost walk up to an imaging center and get, say, an MRI on demand, just because I want one…if I’m willing to pay a lot for it. That’s probably not true on many other countries.

But then you have to ask: would you ever need to walk up to an imaging center and demand an MRI “just because”?

[The_Polymath]

@Maphistos_Sidekick

I had been tempted to point out that, where I am in the US, I can almost walk up to an imaging center and get, say, an MRI on demand, just because I want one…if I’m willing to pay a lot for it. That’s probably not true on many other countries.

Private care in Brazil works like that.

As long as you can pay…the sky is the limit.

[dr_t_non-fan]

@Maphistos_Sidekick

But then you have to ask: would you ever need to walk up to an imaging center and demand an MRI “just because”?

If my doctor recommended one and the MRI place was all, “sooory, we can’t for three months” yeah, I’d be pissed.
We have MRI places that are open weekends and late at night, due the demands for the service (probably from Canadians!). A couple of weeks ago, I went in for a scan on a Sunday at 6PM. Cuz, those MRI’s don’t make an ROI just sitting there doing nothing.