TERF ideology

[SredniVashtar]

I’d probably avoid words like “designed” when making already bad arguments about biology.

[funkingded]

@ClaytonBigsby

If your body is designed to produce small, fast moving gametes, you are a man and are male. If your body is designed to produce large, slow moving gametes, you are a woman and are female. How you live your life is up to you, but hundreds of millions of years of evolution and biology aren’t going to change on a dime. (yes, intersex people exist)

Given your observation here should society make any distinction between people with different types of gametes?

[John.S.Mill]

@ClaytonBigsby

If your body is designed to produce small, fast moving gametes, you are a man and are male. If your body is designed to produce large, slow moving gametes, you are a woman and are female. How you live your life is up to you, but hundreds of millions of years of evolution and biology aren’t going to change on a dime. (yes, intersex people exist)

This definition is useless when it comes to any policymaking, unless you want to drill holes into every single person whenever anyone wants to join a sports team or use a bathroom.

[ClaytonBigsby]

It would be helpful if people were just honest about it.

[ClaytonBigsby]

Human societies have done this for a long time, a reflection of reality.

[SredniVashtar]

I think it would be helpful if people admitted that scientific categories are meaningless to the extent they fail to serve a useful purpose.

Biologists invent definitions for things like phylum and species and bodyparts and organelles and shit so they can do their job. Not because these definitions have some deep intrinsic meaning.

In other words, don’t let language control how you think.

[John.S.Mill]

@ClaytonBigsby

It would be helpful if people were just honest about it.

That’s a super naive thing to say. People aren’t honest about it because there’s prejudice and discrimination.
It’s like when people ask why there isn’t a straight pride and why we need to celebrate lgbt pride. Or when people say all lives matter.

Also, who’s not honest about there being a genetic aspect to this? Sex and gender are different things has been a focal discussion point from the very beginning.

The issue is how are you going to make policies around this issue?

I assume you’re a cis male based on your user name. If you walk into the men’s room in public and I accuse you of being a trans man, how exactly would you prove that you’re not in fact trans based on your definition?

[funkingded]

nonanswer. in the box with the others you go.

[ClaytonBigsby]

I wouldn’t respond to that accusation with anything but a laugh.

[SpaceLobster]

He SAID people used to do it so we should to. Not exactly logic befitting an actuary but we don’t check credentials at the door.
The good old days weren’t leave it to beaver happy. The were cesspools of ignorance and lifestyles.
Except the 80’s. That was the peak of civilization. Miniskirts and new wave.

[ClaytonBigsby]

I think there’s a meaningful distinction between men and women and that these categories serve a useful purpose.

[NormalDan]

@SpaceLobster

but we don’t check credentials at the door

How else am I meant to show off!?

[SredniVashtar]

@ClaytonBigsby

I think there’s a meaningful distinction between men and women and that these categories serve a useful purpose.

I fail to see how Gamete-size/speed informs sports, bathroom, wearing dresses, income, or almost any of the things we talk about. Likewise, if my own gamete size/speed changed, I wouldn’t expect the world to change accordingly.

It might be useful to define a “woman” (for whatever reason) but it seems obvious that your definition is meant as a proxy for some other more useful definition.

[Lucy]

@ClaytonBigsby

If your body is designed to produce small, fast moving gametes, you are a man and are male. If your body is designed to produce large, slow moving gametes, you are a woman and are female. How you live your life is up to you, but hundreds of millions of years of evolution and biology aren’t going to change on a dime. (yes, intersex people exist)

Moderating: This site is LGBT-friendly, and that’s a trans-hostile statement. Your follow-up suggests you are mostly interested in picking a fight. Please drop the topic.

[John.S.Mill]

@ClaytonBigsby

I think there’s a meaningful distinction between men and women and that these categories serve a useful purpose.

You have yet to say how it’s useful. And you don’t respond to any questions with meaningful answers.
I see Lucy beat me to it.

[Marcie]

@SpaceLobster

He SAID people used to do it so we should to. Not exactly logic befitting an actuary but we don’t check credentials at the door.

Not going to step into the cesspool at hand, but just going to take issue with this, as “how they did it before” is exactly (stereotypical) logic befitting an actuary. There’s a reason many of us remain mired in arcane excel spreadsheets much of the time.

[NormalDan]

@Marcie

arcane excel spreadsheets

There’s a fine line between arcane and antique

[ClaytonBigsby]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[John.S.Mill]

obvious trolling is obvious

[EimonGnome]

This entire thread resonates with a topic I found fascinating in history. And it’s about race.

In the New World, there were 3 different approaches. In New Spain, they identified mestizo as 1/2 Spaniard half native. A Castillo was the off spring of a Spaniard and a mestizo. The offspring of a black and a native was a mulato.one needed racial identity submitted on a marriage license, so all this was recorded.

Meanwhile in Canada, things were way different. The off spring of a French Canadian and a Native was…Canadaian.

And in the English colonies. You were either black or white. Any amount of black heritage made you black. All or nothing.

And it occurs to me how silly the whole expertise of labeling is. Just like here on gender. Neither the Spanish classifications nor the American “in or out” makes any sense. Anyone else get the same feeling?