Honestly it might be better to just start a Feminism thread.
There’s nothing uniquely trans about society’s mixed feelings about what it means to be a woman (or any other identity). The same conflict has split the feminist movement (and every other movement) for decades.
Anne_Roth’s post was not only offensive, but it was idiotic. And if “conservative men” in her workplace really give her a problem for being not feminine enough, that’s a hr issue not a trans issue.
I don’t believe this happened though.
Easy in what sense? It may not be obvious, but there is an extremely high emotional price that I pay participating in these threads. I made that post then spent 15 minutes wandering around my office building to calm down enough to focus.
And it’s not just these threads. It like that every. single. day. of a trans person’s existence. Being scared of being attacked because I need to pee at Panera Bread. Getting told my voice sounds fake, or too deep. Getting messages on Twitter calling me a rapist and that I should lose my children.
There are two choices in online forums: either you ban all use of bigotry, dog whistles, and hate, or your forum isn’t safe for marginalized folks and eventually the hate is all you have. There is no reason for discussion about whether people of human rights or deserve to exist. There is no legitimate discussion to be had.
Let me generalize this excellent statement where Equality and Liberty are summed up so simply.
Every person should be free to define themselves.
If we’re banning anything that anyone can claim to be a dog whistle then are we really able to have a conversation about anything where people don’t eagerly and enthusiastically agree with each other already?
While I prefer to argue down dumb posts like that rather than squash them, I’m not sure I’d feel the same way if I was trans.
I used to be on team no moderation too, but what changed my mind wasn’t being trans, it was a female friend showing some of the messages she got on an unmoderated board game discussion page we were on. Trolls ruin communities, so if you want a community, you have to be ruthless.
There are plenty of other things to talk about imo. And perhaps I’m more empathetic because the gay movement went through the exact same phase, from being in the discourse minority to now the majority, but the fight was not easy. It was hard to even start a discussion when people based their arguments on axioms that were completely offensive, like gay people will raise gay children, gay people are pedophiles, gay people choose to be gay… It’s hard to have these conversations because they impact us in very real ways, as opposed to just participating in silly online banter. My mom didn’t eat for a whole week when I came out to her and had to go to the hospital, and she spent the next couple years convinced that I became gay because she let my grandma raise me for 2 years when I was young, and thus I suffered tremendous trauma.
These are conversations of the past now that society has moved on, but when society is not yet mature enough to have the discussion, it’s impossible to not bring emotional baggage into the conversation when you’re living through the life.
I think most of us are on team “some moderation”.
I also think GA (and AO) is less toxic than other parts of the internet… And they were acceptable to me, but I can certainly see why they might not be acceptable for everyone (including DW Simpson lol).
Certainly having fewer trolls here is very nice.
I don’t feel this response should be in this thread as it is more about moderation than the topic currently discussed. so I have hidden it.
How I see it based on the experience from AO political.
The problem with allowing dog whistles and veiled bigotry is where it leads and the reaction to where it leads. AO political was rampant with disingenuous arguments that built from “dog whistle” type just asking questions type posts. Push the poster to actually defend or elaborate on their statement and they spin and spin the bigotry until in a corner then they drop the discussion only to start again somewhere else, in another thread, with another alt, at a different time. Rinse repeat.
Since there does not seem to be a way to force an actual discussion, an exchange of ideas, with a poster that doesn’t want to have a discussion we have to be highly aware of the indicators of the types of posts that seem to lead away from discussion.
I like the features here that allow people to click on blocked posts or posts from people you have blocked to see what is hidden content. That way if there is a kernel of value each poster can determine whether to respond at that point.
Exactly, I haven’t argued for no moderation. I’ve pointed out the absurdity of the argument of using the ban hammer for whenever someone can claim dog whistle. I thought Lobster put it well, let’s create an environment for friendly conversation. That doesn’t mean we all have to agree with each other nor be banned for any perceived dog whistle.
This is what i came to say. In terms of laying out the arguments, sure, it’s easy enough. But it’s actively unpleasant to be faced with those arguments at all.
And it’s not like you will run into it once and then be done. Trans people run into these things over and over again. Eventually, even a saint runs out of patience.
It’s probably good to have these discussions somewhere. But any place that hosts them is going to be an unfriendly place for trans people to hang out. And the management of this forum chose to make this a welcoming place, rather than a place for that kind of argument.
I’m surprised this thread is allowed to exist then?
I’m not comfortable with declarations like this. People can date whoever they want. No one should ever be forced into attraction and this feels like making someone feel guilty over their dating preferences.
No one can force you to date anyone, but if you say on your dating profile “no blacks or asians” I absolutely will make you feel guilty.
So you get to determine what people are attracted to? Why can’t you force me to be gay? Why can’t I force yo to be strait? Doesn’t seem that different.
why? find someone who wants to date blacks or asians. there are plenty.
To be fair, I don’t think anyone on here made an argument that anyone doesn’t deserve to exist.
That would indeed be an abhorrent argument.
No. I already said it’s a tricky thing.
But if I even have an inkling that your preference is based in racism, I will indeed shame you.
When you argue that society should be a certain way such that it becomes impossible for -insert minority- to live a normal life, you are basically arguing for their nonexistence.