I also wonder, but can’t find any data… are some/many/most of these new voters young? I did have that thought, that perhaps this would get more young people plugged in, and hopefully at least a chunk of them will continue to vote.
I was wondering because, when the SCOTUS thing got leaked, there was a big protest in my city. Hundreds of people, mostly female, mostly younger.
With the availability of abortifacient pills that can be sent through the mail, the frequency of this happening will be less than in the 60s.
And I think most of the people who would be horrified by such images are already pro-choice. So I’m not sure how much impact it will have.
I think almost everyone is horrified of images of pain and death featuring cute kids and attractive young adults. I think we’re just made that way.
Most of the anti-abortion pics I see are the opposite - trying to show fetuses as close to fully-developed humans as possible. Cute white fetuses, in particular.
Looking at the Roe and the coach praying at midfield, I’m starting to get the feeling the Pope is now an honorary member of the SCOTUS. It pains me to say it, but that’s pretty much the Vatican’s voice. We do have 6 Catholic justices now, a most unprecedented situation.
I’ve watched some of my Catholic relatives struggle through all this Trumpist nonsense. They just have a really, really hard time ignoring the churches stance on abortion, and end up voting GOP. Based solely on that one issue. The desire to adhere to Catholic guidance is very strong.
Jesus never said anything about abortion. He did say a few words about helping the poor.
The pope, and many other religious leaders, have said a lot about it though.
I don’t see the “Jesus was silent on the issue” argument convincing many people.
I don’t either. But they seem to latch onto that one issue and ignore the rest of what Jesus actually did say.
People have been doing stuff like that for a couple millennia now.
Aggregate views on abortion are much different between Catholics who regularly attend mass vs. those who do not.
Some of my Catholic family is not affected in the same way. They are Easter/Christmas Catholics.
So I certainly agree. To your point, do you have any insight into which justices are regular attendees at mass? I believe that we could include Biden in that crowd, curiously. I myself have no information on their Sunday routines.
No, I don’t know. But politicians (including the Supreme Court) will of course do things for optics, such as going to mass even if not very religious.
Genesis 9:6
“Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed, for God made man in his own image.
Exodus 21:22-25
“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. But if there is harm, then you shall pay life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."
Psalm 139:13
For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.
Matthew 19:14
But Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me and do not hinder them, for to such belongs the kingdom of heaven.”
I’m pretty sure Matthew 19:14 is out of context but I thought it fitting nonetheless. These are the best verses I could conjur up that a re vaguely related to the abortion topic. As the rest of these are old testament scriptures it isn’t always 100% clear how many of them apply now. I would argue that many laws are still valid, but you can make a case from the book of Acts 10:9-16 that many or all dietary restrictions have passed away.
I would say that the combination of Gen 9:6 and Ex 21:22-25 makes is very clear that the old testament does not consider an unborn fetus to be “man, made in the image of God”. Accidentally killing the fetus is treated as a property crime, whereas accidentally killing the pregnant woman is treated as manslaughter.
fwiw, orthodox Judaism considered abortion a violation of the law to be fruitful and multiply, but requires abortion to save the life of the mother, as saving a human life always trumps the other laws. Judaism considers a baby to be ensouled when it draws its first breath, just as God ensouled Adam by breathing into his nostrils. In fact, the word “neshama” means both “soul” and “breath”
Elohai Neshama: Breathing the Soul Alive | My Jewish Learning.
Numbers 5:23-28, anyone?
Does anyone think abortion is not morally wrong at all in most cases? I don’t think we are arguing whether it is wrong or not. We’re discussing whether it should be legal.
I do not believe abortions is morally wrong AT ALL in most cases.
That would be, most cases in which people have historically and currently seek out abortions.
Raises hand.
Based on this, 91% of abortions take place in the first trimester. I see nothing morally wrong with an abortion in the first trimester for any reason. I do not consider a first trimester pregnancy a child.
Where the line gets drawn after first trimester in terms of moralness of abortion is fuzzy for me. If I had to be pushed I’d draw my line somewhere around viability, 24ish weeks, but I could entertain arguments for earlier since I’m not solid on it. But even then, I feel like the moral dilemma is based on reason for the abortion. Anything related to rape/incest, health of mother, rare genetic diseases/viability of infant, etc, no moral qualms getting that late term abortion.
My personal morality says that someone having a 39 week abortion just because they decided to not have the baby for pure elective reasons says that is morally wrong. But that is the extremely extremely rare exception that I’m not even sure happens.
I think most Americans agree that is morally wrong. I also don’t think it’s legal in the US. It would certainly be extremely difficult to find a practitioner (MD or otherwise) to do it.
My son’s spouse had an abortion. The embryo had lodged itself in their fallopian tube. If the embryo hadn’t been removed, it would have killed them before it became viable. Even so, I felt a little sad that my grandchild was being killed. But I supported them at the time, and I believe it was totally and completely moral. Not to have intervened would have been immoral, imho.
In general, I have no moral quarrels with people who abort for any reason prior to quickening, which is about the end of the first trimester. That’s when it starts to feel like a baby, rather than an illness. After that, I think it would be immoral to abort “just because I feel like it”, because while I don’t think the fetus is really a human being at that point, it begins to look and feel like one, and I think it cheapens our own souls to kill a person, or even to do something that feels kinda like killing a person.
But abortions that late are quite uncommon, even where it’s legal. And most of those that happen are due to medical problems, either of the mother or the fetus.
