School Choice

I attended such a school. Yes, absolutely. We even had a required course called “Cults” my Junior year where we talked about primarily Christian cults and why they were all wrong. Catholicism was on that list (we were Protestant Evangelical).

ETA: Not even implicitly. It’s explicit. During my school days, I could tell you exactly why any other major religion was wrong, and why my brand of Christianity was right. It was required learning, and it was tested.

4 Likes

I mean, here’s how absurd it got. We had mandatory chapel twice a week in elementary school, often with guests speakers. One time some guy came, think he was a pastor, but the cool, hip, popular kind. He told us that no one has EVER left Evangelical Christianity, unless they were mentally unwell (so mentally unwell that God would forgive them because they were incapable of thinking critically if they had made that choice, so they couldn’t be held responsible for that action). And because I was a young kid, I took it at face value, for a very long time.

1 Like

I was leaning toward saying yes, but the “implicitly” makes me pause. It sounds like in NA’s, and I expect in many others, that it’s explicit. There are many Catholic schools around here, and my uninformed impression is that they are much more accurately described as “advocating Catholicism” than “trashing other beliefs”.

1 Like

Here’s a breakdown (as of 2015)

Maybe, but I also think some are explicitly saying that your religion is wrong (if it doesn’t match the school’s).

But, somehow you forgot to mention Iowa. It has an R trifecta and they’ve been hitting the R issues – lower taxes, anti-CRT legislation, vaccine choice laws, reduced gun laws, more restrictive abortion laws, and now school choice. Seems like people should be flocking to Iowa.

That was my experience in a non-Jesuit Catholic school.

(Of course, this Catholic school was so conservative, that the school masses were in Latin.)

I have thought that laws providing vouchers should include a requirement that parents spend at least one day per year in the school, simply observing. “Parents programs” and volunteering wouldn’t count. Just watch what goes on during normal school hours.

Parents using vouchers are saying they are better judges of school quality than the public education establishment. They should demonstrate that they at least are gathering some information.

I wonder how many would decide that this is just ordinary, boring school like they remember.

1 Like

That some poor black parents are proponents for school choice measures is a reflection that schools in poor areas (or poor parts of town) frequently suck, and some folks find it easier just to send kids whose parents care about such things to other schools, rather than trying to figure out how to fix the suckage of the local schools.

4 Likes

So my state gives vouchers to students in failing public schools if they want to go to a private school. Is that disadvantageous to the poor?

1 Like

Oh lordy, I remember my religious high school despite attempting to forget. I might still be religious if not for the school.

Kicked out a pregnant girl. No consequence for the boy that got her pregnant.

Daily chapel which was usually a snoozefest, but had some gems like even slaves should obey their masters because the Bible says so.

Kicked out anybody who was gay. I have several gay friends who had to hide it through high school.

About 400 students - 2 black, 1 Hispanic. Remainder, white.

3 Likes

religion sucks more

3 Likes

I think so. Even if not, it’s not a solution to the problem.

When faced with a failing public school, the goal should be to make it better: fund it better, give it more resources, invest in the community. Vouchers don’t do that. Vouchers only allow a portion of students zoned for the failing school to go somewhere else. The students who leave will generally be better students with more support and resources at home. Students with special needs will almost certainly remain in the public option. The failing school is left with less money to serve an even more disadvantaged student body. Vouchers put schools in death spirals.

4 Likes

Wonder where the OP stands on the heavy subsidies to the Hasidic Yeshvas. Virtually 100% religious study. Separated by gender. Absolutely teaching “this is What to believe. This is how to behave”.

The problem with these ideologically based rules and regulations is often how they play out at the extremes. Once you let the camel into the tent… And good luck writing regs that cannot be gamed.

A couple of years ago, I got a call from my town’s Democratic committee, asking me to vote in favor of the town budget. (In Connecticut, many towns still have referendums to approve municipal budgets.)

The budget included a fairly large increase in school spending, with the explanation given as a need to improve test scores, yadda, yadda. The town’s elementary schools are decent, but the junior and senior high schools are below average academically. Discussions on improving the academics has (and I’m uncharitably oversimplifying here) seemed to focus on throwing more money at them.

So, my response back to the committee person who was trying to get my vote was that I would vote against any town budget that called for an increase in the school budget significantly beyond accounting for inflation if there weren’t some plan to increase parental involvement at the schools.

I know that it’s hard in some families, but I do think there is a correlation between student success and parental involvement. And, while it’s possible that there needs to be better funding for academics…I think parental and community support needs to play a role.

The high school football and basketball teams are among the best in the state, and there seems to be quite a bit of community support for them. If only some of that support-helps-success attitude could be shifted to academics…

1 Like

If we’re going to have tax dollars support parochial schools, the government needs to be neutral when it comes to the religions involved.

Perhaps there ought to be an athiest “parochial” school?

(I think the prospect of Wiccan/pagan and Satanist religious schools being eligible for school choice has nuked conservative Christian support for a couple of iterations of school choice measures in a couple of states.)

Amen. The amount of wasted time and effort (particularly in the US) in pursuit of college sports is crazy. All of this is for sh*ts and giggles, what really matters is the academics!

1 Like

\textcolor{red}{\text{Why don't they write the law to include only schools of valid religions,}}
\textcolor{red}{\text{or of THE correct religion}}

1 Like

Don’t give Desantis any ideas.

2 Likes

I don’t think vouchers are a cure-all, but i do think they help.

You also have to ask what is the problem before you say isn’t a solution. For a student, a long term improvement plan for a school that has been chronically underperforming isn’t a solution, because their needs are shorter term. The nature of the funding for a school here is both state funding per pupil (possibly some state funding that isn’t linear per pupil) combined with local resources that aren’t per pupil based. It could be the funding vs expense isn’t negatively impacted depending on how many opt to other schools.

The distinction between service intensity needed on those who leave vs stay is biased to public. However there are federal funds to help finance those services. Many of those who do go private still need extra services (generally not as intensive as separate classes). It has led to an increase of special services provided at the private school my kids attend.

1 Like