Schools in a lot of the country have been open all year long. If schools being closed is part of the requirement to do what you say are you proposing that they also close? My kids have been in school since August. I would be angry if they closed today.
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out here in po town we had this argument back in August.
There was no general consensus. about 1/2 the districts here have been fully open all year, about 1/2 have been closed. My district never really considered closing, the argument was really about mask requirements. Districts that fully opened did surprisingly well and stayed open the whole year. Most of the districts that started with some form of hybrid ended up closing before the end of the fall semester.
I have not seen any conclusive argument for opening or closing schools (pre-vaccine). I was glad my kids went to school, but fully recognized there was risk from it. However, me being willing to roll the dice is NOT a reason for school to be open for everyone.
Even with vaccinated teachers, I’m still on the fence. Teachers are ‘safe’ but that doesn’t mean students cant continue the spread.
So in conclusion I have no conclusion.
Yes, we get it, your emotions are more important than old people’s health and lives.
First I want to hear your metrics since you are claiming we are at a place where schools everywhere should be open. What makes you so confident that all schools should be open?
I have not see good evidence to support either side here. Seems like schools just choose to gamble or don’t, but there is little data to quantify the actual risk. We just know its >0.
First old people have largely taken care of themselves or chosen not to. I’m not choosing school over old people. That’s a straw man and you know it.
Second most states are vaccinating over 65 and teachers already so the old people and teachers are vaccinated or getting vaccinated if they want to be. If they don’t want to be, they’re on their own.
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Vaccines aren’t 100% effective. They also aren’t guaranteed to be effective against variants of the disease.
Well, it’s better than a sharp jab to the arm, eh??
This should have a giant asterisk with a footnote stating that this really only applies to white, middle class+. It’s a very privileged take.
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It doesn’t even apply to all of the white middle class old people. No one in my extremely privileged bridge group has scored a vaccine, yet. There’s not enough to go around.
(My bridge group is entirely people who live in nice homes and don’t need to leave their home to work, so they aren’t racing to be first. But they all want the vaccine as soon as they can get it without spending a day on hold, or frantically clicking “refresh”.)
“Are vaccinating 65+ and teachers” just means those people are eligible to fight for the limited supply of jabs. It doesn’t mean everyone who wants it can get it.
And there are lots of younger people who are immune compromised, or have diabetes, or are otherwise very vulnerable, but who aren’t even eligible to fight for doses, yet, because the old folks haven’t all gotten it.
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That’s not my point. He’s claiming people over 65 or teachers who don’t want to be vaccinated are on their own. That is the completely privileged take.
Marginalized communities rely heavily on older family members as childcare, and POC have a legitimate, longstanding history of aversion to new vaccinations, so pretending like they’ve made their choices and are simply a victim of themselves and ought to get over it is a bad take.
Elderly caregivers are a main reason our school district (urban, generally quite poor) didn’t consider opening in person and are only open in a hybrid model for some kids now.
I didn’t read his post that way. I read it as everyone over 65 could be vaccinated if they want to be, so if they don’t want to be, he doesn’t think we should support them. I thought that’s what he meant by “on their own”.
Even among the privileged, there are a lot of elderly caregivers. More when the schools are closed.
Hmm, that is interesting. Everybody I know who is a teacher or is 65+ and has tried to get the vaccine, has gotten at least the first shot. I do live in a privileged circle, and just by looking at the numbers it has to be that there are plenty of 65+ folks who have not gotten it yet in my county. I just don’t know them personally, or have a great feel for why the breakdown of why not (didn’t want it, tried and could not get it, don’t have computer skills, etc.).
School districts around here (Northern California) are starting to go back in hybrid. My kids will be staying remote for the rest of the school year as they are in a charter program and their teachers chose not to go back this year.
My daughter has neighborhood friends, and they play outside with masks on, so gets social interaction. My son does not, and only socializes online. Recently we ran into one of his friends in person and he seemed to have forgotten how to act in real life, a bit worrying. Of course it could also be he is getting older and is in the awkward around girls stage. Anyway, hope that once they eventually go back in person it will come back to them.
Yeah where I live any teacher who wants a vaccine has already gotten the first dose and they’ll have their second doses by Spring Break.
Where my parents live they’re still working on vaccinating the 65+ crowd. You have to ask around to find out who has doses / who has the best process for getting people through it.
It certainly helped to either be patient or willing to spend some time or have an advocate working on your behalf.
But I think things are getting a little easier at least. Eventually they will reach the point where they will call people who registered for the vaccine who haven’t gotten one, but right now you have to be more proactive.
My state doesn’t have a universal registration system. There’s no line your can just wait in.
Some hospitals, etc., have reached out to their high-risk patients, but mostly you need to run around looking for open slots. And if course, only privileged people have anyone reaching out to them.
similar in my state.
The state just announces a phase that allows providers to vaccinate certain groups. But its up people to see they are eligible and setup appointments. Which are commonly full when they call. Also the phone lines are often busy because people not eligible are calling and then being told they cant get it.
The exception is health care workers… they work at the hospital that admins the vaccine and since they work there it makes them eligible. So hospitals were offering staff appointments (as opposed to staff requesting appointments).
I think they just expanded to over 65 people. Im not sure how retirement home residence will get appointments.
In my state, they brought vaccine to retirement homes (and similar) and to health care workers. But the rest of us have to fight the website or wait on hold, once we become eligible.
company sent out an email yesterday saying 'appointments available!"
then the next day they sent a new email out that said 'please stop calling us. all appointments are for eligible state phase only. The phone line IS working, but may be on hold for a while"
I could easily state it’s a very privileged take to continue keeping kids out of school. This is clearly hurting the poor and minority students and parents more than it is upper class and white folks. Don’t play the privilege card without considering how it aligns to my argument.
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Keeping kids out of school is a terrible choice to have to make, sending kids back to school is a terrible choice to have to make, and neither of those is what I called privileged. This part is: "First old people have largely taken care of themselves or chosen not to. I’m not choosing school over old people. That’s a straw man and you know it.
Second most states are vaccinating over 65 and teachers already so the old people and teachers are vaccinated or getting vaccinated if they want to be. If they don’t want to be, they’re on their own."
Bolding is mine.