I don’t think that’s especially it, but thank you. I feel fine with outwardly expressing emotions, I just don’t feel them so much. We threw a NYE party recently and, admittedly I was sober while people drank so that was a bit of a bummer, but I was playing a game with one of my oldest friends, looked her in the eye… and kept thinking “keep smiling, cheeks up, eyes creased, it’s a happy event, don’t fuck it up for people”. I felt in that moment she caught something in me but usually I feel able to mask.
Regardless - going to the doc for pills in March, and I go to therapy weekly. We discussed this week my concerns over the pills. She’s never pushed medication on me, but now that we’ve broached the topic she thinks it’s a really good idea. I scored in “moderate” depression but we discussed I felt like I “fudged” a few questions to be better than intended, due to the questions being badly worded (I feel most actuaries are like that.)
I’m glad you are seeking help. I had an extremely challenging period in my life (spouse with an untreatable, life-altering diagnosis, mom died in the sequelae of an accident which maybe wouldn’t have been as bad if she wasn’t on the blood thinners I pushed to get her back on, dad murdered via arson of my childhood home, pandemic stress, parenting challenges, and then the normal stuff). I wasn’t sure if i was appropriately responding to unusually stressful events or not, but when I started having those passive thoughts was when I decided to see a therapist. I probably should have gone on medication, too, but I already felt empty and dead inside, I was worried about blunting what actual emotion I did have. I don’t have any advice, just overall rooting for you.
One of my better friends is stuck here. After his wife of 24 years up and walked out on him - she left hints there were problems, he ignored it, … there’s a lot going on underneath even that - he admitted / still admits he’s passively suicidal. He couldn’t commit suicide, but if something happened and it put his life in danger he wouldn’t actively try to save himself.
The difference: he refuses to get help or talk to anyone, because he’s convinced that doctors in general are quacks who make up things that are wrong with you to sell you stuff you don’t need, and therapy is just “people telling you everything about you is wrong” he’s not wasting his time or money on that.
I have been there, but it was decades ago. I thought I wasn’t depressed though because I got up and went to work every day. I didn’t seek therapy mostly because I didn’t know to. I’d read a book about a woman who’d been depressed and she lay in bed counting the flowers on the wallpaper every day. And she had lost a son. I hadn’t experienced anything like that. It would be years before I recognized that experience as depression.
I too wonder about the meds but I figure it’s worth a try. I also told the family in my house what’s going on. I wanted them to know in case I started spiraling. I just wanted to — if possible — nip this in the bud before I go to the dark place where I was before. It’s really scary looking back on that.
I volunteer in a handful of ways, and don’t talk much about it. I don’t especially count here as talking about it, but I think only my spouse, godkid, and therapist knew about this previously.
I was thinking about why volunteering feels more like a matter-of-fact something I should do, like tidying up, but doesn’t make me feel especially fulfilled or worthwhile.
It definitely goes back to my Protestant upbringing, and the concept of “Your works cannot make you good. It’s only through God that you can be made good, and through God you will do works that demonstrate His goodness through you.”
I realized that once God was removed from my belief system, I was left with a deeply internalized, “You are fundamentally a bad person, and nothing you can do could ever make you good.”
Obviously there are beliefs that don’t have quite the same viewpoint, but that was my upbringing.
I probably shouldn’t talk theology, but is it possible that the belief means “bad” in the sense that “people have the will to sin”, and doesn’t mean that they should be blamed for it? (In fact, being created with the will to sin wasn’t their fault and therefore it’s the opposite of being “bad” as in meaning doing something to be blamed for, which is what “bad” often means nowadays).
I’m working to destroy this mindset so understand I’m not wallowing in this belief.
But I took it as “You are inherently without value due to original sin. You yourself have nothing redeeming, and nothing you can do gives you worth without God.”
If a Protestant disagrees today, well, that’s what happened to me.
grew up roman catholic. but early on figured out that the idea that “not through works alone” was nonsense to me. how does a human demonstrate and live the values/beliefs if not through demonstrated works in service of others?
i mean, if there’s an afterworld, im packing for warm. but you’re doing it right IMO
should add - that led to an interesting discussion in grad school with the former pre-sem/math majors from a missouri synod lutheran school. they did not agree with me but could follow the argument.
Now I am somewhat curious what mainstream Protestants would think of someone who says they would just steal, commit adultery, lie, and possibly kill as much as they like or can get away with, and will be anyway saved by grace.
In some sense, Christianity (and in particular this idea of grace) is a reaction first from the prescriptions of Judaism and then Protestantism is a reaction from the indulgences and foreign control of Catholicism in the Middle Ages, but that’s a historical/sociological explanation and not a theological one.
Edit: I have done some reading and apparently the answer is that the mainstream belief is that faith is necessary for grace (which I knew) but also that faith must be demonstrated by good works and the avoidance of sin when humanly possible, or it is not considered true faith (which I didn’t know).
I guess one thing that remains unclear is that this doesn’t really acknowledge that humans are flawed and do some good and some not-so-good… so what amount of good works are required to demonstrate faith? Is it the maximum possible which almost no one could say they do? I’m sure theologians somewhere are discussing this. Probably the answer is that there are various levels of grace and doing more gets you higher… but I’ve probably researched this enough for the day.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the concept that a person who does all types of evil things and then repents and has faith, is considered better than a person who does good all their life and doesn’t have the same faith, but, that seems to be a central concept, has lasted several millennia.
…
Anyway, to the original point of this, it seems, whoever told you that what you do doesn’t matter is really ignoring the point. (Sadly, lots of ignorant people out there!) What you do does matter. If you want to base it on the theology you grew up with (which you don’t need to), you can say it matters because it’s the outer clothing of inner faith. (To put it another way, thought and action are considered interlinked in a way that one is not considered to exist without the other. And faith in a moral code is a different type of action, too.) Or you can base it on another moral code, however you come up with it.
I came across a term today - Christian-washing, akin to green-washing, someone who has the appearance of being a Christian but does not embrace the spirit of being a Christian.
Another term could be CINO. I gather there are quite a few CINOs referring to other people as RINOs.
Idk what “most” think. But my mom used to gripe that when she was in school the Catholic kids would do whatever they wanted and then go to Confession.
That may have been influenced by her mother, a Catholic dropout who eventually became Protestant.
I believe “saved by grace, not by works” BUT having been saved by grace there ought to be some level of care for others in your life. If not, then how do you consider yourself to be Christlike? That said, I probably judge myself more harshly than I would anyone else. I often say, “I don’t do much,” and then my daughter and therapist argue with me. I have a retired preacher friend who says, “Do what you can, not what you can’t.” Bc if we get too caught up in the doing we might forget to extend grace to ourselves and others. That is carrying me right now.
I also sort of think that regardless of religion, it’s just generally being a good citizen to volunteer in some way. There is nearly always someone less fortunate who could use a hand.
Starting meds in the morning. I’m on the lowest dose of Prozac, with the intent to stay there if it works. I’m optimistic, but nervous. What if I try more than one kind and nothing works? Maybe I just am how I am, and even if a drug changes me am I just medicating myself into happiness?
Probably once I’ve taken this for a little while I’ll feel better about it. I’m starting either way.
Different things work for different people, and there is no way to know other than trying it. Anti-depressants did nothing for me because my issues were hormonal imbalances, but I know a bunch of people for whom they made a big difference.
Yeah, write things down that you feel, both physically and emotionally. Tell them to the Prescriber. Talk to them here if you are so inclined. I think this is a safe space
I will document things here, not as a daily log but it will help arrange my thoughts. It’s no more intrusive than the portions of my brain I’ve already shared. Thanks for the idea, that’s a really good thought.
The doctor says the goal is for me to not even really realize I feel different until I check up with her 4 weeks later and realize I do.
Didn’t actually get to start today because the pharmacy was out of stock and I didn’t feel like transferring it and running around to another. Plan to start tomorrow.
I’m one week on generic Prozac now. I haven’t bothered checking in daily because nothing has been notable but I’ve been mindful of my mood every day. I’m not supposed to feel anything for 7-14 days (unless bad side effects) and it’s not supposed to really kick in for 4 weeks.
With that in mind, I think I’ve been experiencing placebo effect. Several times I’ve thought about how I feel and felt a baseline of contentedness and general happiness that I’m not used to. Sometimes I could swear I feel… something going on in my mind. It’s hard to describe and the harder I try, the more I sound like a person saying “I can feel the toxins leaving my body”, but it feels like something is twisting my general state of mind.
That leads me back into - if I’m not supposed to feel anything and placebo effect is enough, then I simply need to think happier thoughts about my life. But I’m not completely stupid. I will continue for at least the full month.
I can give you my perspective, as an evangelical lifer who is now a Christian who rejects the evangelical church. The Bible is pretty clear about a few things on this subject. First, the only authority on salvation is God. Second, salvation is not achieved through works, but rather the confession/declaration that “Jesus is Lord” and belief that “God raised him from the dead.” That’s it.
The Bible is also pretty clear on another thing, for example in James 2. In summary, faith without works is dead, useless. This does not mean that a person who does not demonstrate their faith through works is not saved, but their faith is not serving its purpose.
There are all different kinds of beliefs. Many would probably question that person’s actual salvation, but another person’s salvation is both unknowable, and irrelevant. It’s God’s business, not mine. If a person says they are a believer, then who am I to judge them differently? It’s of no consequence to me. I probably won’t associate with them, because the purpose of my faith is to be of service to God and others, and if someone else’s actions don’t align with that, I’m not hitching my wagon to their star.
It’s not about being a “better” person than someone else, as that would imply that salvation can be earned separately from God, which it cannot. No one is good enough to earn salvation through their actions. It’s about accepting the grace that is offered by God, that’s it. And yes, that means even Hitler could have been saved if he had accepted God’s grace, which is a difficult concept to accept.