Israel - Hamas War October 2023

JDAM kits and 500 and 2000lbs bombs are not city busters. The 2000lbs are used for bunker busting if they have penetrating heads. Doing the job without these types of munitions will likely increase civilian collateral damage.

Sending support for Iron Dome is fine, but taking out the launch sites and C3 bunkers means you don’t need as much from defensive systems.

The bigger issue is the message it sends to Iran and Hamas. Delaying or even cancelling delivery of a few thousand rounds won’t matter too much. Telling the enemy that they are winning the PR war matter a A LOT. Make no mistake, Hamas and Iran are enemies to both Israel and the US.

It sucks, but the way out is through. Hamas won’t negotiate and it won’t stop as long as it exists. Israel can’t allow a strong Palestinian state to develop with Hamas forming part of its core. That would just be a slow form of suicide.

Hamas delenda est. Otherwise the cycle will just repeat. We keep forcing the Israelis to stop. That means they have to win every fight to maintain the status quo because Hamas only has to win once. Change the status quo.

The problem is that in taking out Hamas, tens of thousands of civilians will die. That’s the perfect recruitment tool for Hamas.

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The problem with not taking out Hamas is the cycle repeats and tens of thousands of civilians will die and millions will live under 8th century understanding of Sharia law in abject poverty.

I don’t disagree that religious based laws are horrible. (It’s a backslide happening in America that is worrying me.) I’m just not sure how you ‘take out Hamas’ without engaging in an actual genocide.

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Or I’m looking at a different school than you are. Let me be more explicit. I have been following the protests at MIT very closely, because i know a lot of people who are involved in them. A friend of a friend just got suspended from MIT for protesting. Several friends are supporting the protests. I get photos in a shared discord, and lots of commentary. And they are not attacking Jews. They are trying to get MIT to stop supporting Israel military research, and generally sever ties with Israel.

I think they are misguided. The idea that any giant administration is going to violate a bunch of long-term contracts because some students have pitched tents on the lawn is absurd. And i think they underestimate the evil of Hamas, and its influence.

But they aren’t harassing Jews. There are giant flame wars in student dorm-spam, which I’m sure makes some Jewish students uncomfortable. But no one is being blocked from attending classes. (Except students who got themselves suspended, after very clear warnings from the administration that it would happen.)

And the distance between what i see at this one school and the general reporting makes me suspect that coverage is focusing on exceptional incidents and not the norm. I saw a story about a Harvard student who was harassed “for being Jewish”, but when looking up the details, he was actually harassed for physically threatening students who had been peacefully protesting.

I’m sure there have been real incidents of antisemitism. I just think their frequency has been exaggerated.

Sorry, Hamas has done exactly that. Or… If you want to say that they haven’t called for the murder of Jews who don’t live “between the river and the sea” , you have to observe that Israel hasn’t harmed any Palestinians who don’t live between river and the sea, either. Any definition of genocide that can be applied to Israel also applies to Hamas, they’ve just been less successful in execution.

(And yes, there are a lot of Palestinians who live in other parts of the middle east, especially Jordan, plus many others who live in other parts of the world altogether.)

I don’t believe that’s possible short of genocide of the Gazans.

Extremely anecdotal and should not be extrapolated.

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That kind of thinking, aggregated across most of the voting public, is why we always only have at most two viable candidates on the ballot.

(Unless a race is potentially competitive – they usually aren’t – I vote for the least-objectionable-to-me third party candidate. If there is no such candidate, I tend to leave that race blank on the ballot due to the lack of an explicit “none of the above” option.

This kind of thinking is a direct consequence of our fptp electoral system. Give us a better system there will be more viable candidates.

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This too…although in one discussion where I argued this point, someone rebutted with, “then how do you explain Canada?”

Senior UN official says northern Gaza is now in ‘full-blown famine’ : NPR

Cindy McCain, the American director of the U.N. World Food Program, became the most prominent international official so far to declare that trapped civilians in the most cut-off part of Gaza had gone over the brink into famine.

“It’s horror,” McCain told NBC’s “Meet the Press” in an interview to air Sunday. “There is famine — full-blown famine — in the north, and it’s moving its way south.”

Acute malnutrition rates there among children under 5 have surged from 1% before the war to 30% five months later, the USAID official said. The official called it the fastest such climb in hunger in recent history, more than in grave conflicts and food shortages in Somalia or South Sudan.

Gaza is home to 2.3 million people. A few months of famine and it would be home to well south of 2 million people.

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I think the are lots of options between “do nothing” and “block all the protests”.

Suggesting some options doesn’t seem particularly useful at this point.

The problem isn’t “that kind of thinking”, it’s first past the post, which makes “that kind of thinking” the best thing you can do to advance your goals.

And what you are doing is not an effective way to protest our fptp election system. There are real political movements to implement ranked choice in many places. You should be supporting that. They have a legitimate chance of being implemented in several places. (And Alaska is trying to roll it back because it led to extremists losing.)

And also, given how our system works, you shouldn’t throw away your vote. You should vote for the least bad of the candidates who have a chance of winning.

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What you observe is correct, except for two considerations:

First, as regards my voting strategy, note the operative words “unless a race is potentially competitive”. Looking back over the 20ish years I’ve lived in my current location, I can count on a single hand, without using all my fingers, just how many times there have been potentially competitive races on the ballot in the general election.

In all but one of those instances, I have held my nose and voted for the lesser evil (and even then, because in this state, candidates can be nominated by multiple parties, I was able to technically vote third party.)

In that one instance BOTH of the candidates I deemed to be a “greater evil”, Apparently, I wasn’t alone thinking that, because the third parties either cross-nominated or declined to run anyone, to avoid being spoilers. The race wasn’t going to impact control of the legislative body they were campaigning for a seat in, so that couldn’t guide my vote either.

I was SO disgusted with both of the candidates in that race that my conscience wouldn’t let me simply return a blank ballot on that item. Instead, I filled out the necessary form with the Secretary of State so I could write in my own name without spoiling my ballot.

A small independent paper sought out the official write-in candidates, interviewed those it could find…and much to my surprise, I came in third, with a few thousand votes.

That anecdote aside… remember that declining to vote for the lesser evil in non-competitive races doesn’t preclude also supporting reforms to our defective political architecture of single-representative geography-based districts where candidates are chosen with a first past the post mechanic. I can, and do, support such efforts when opportunity presents.

However, I am living in a state that is dominated by one party (and thus is disincented from changing the political architecture), that has no viable citizen-led initiative process (the only realistic path for referendums to end up on statewide ballot is through the legislature), where the other party’s state leadership is currently remarkably impotent / incompetent / mostly focused in agitating for the federal party, and where citizens dissatisfied with the current political realities in state are the ones least likely to be interested in alternative election infrastructure.

To have any chance of getting a kernel of support for changing the status quo, there needs to be more people who are aware that there are alternatives to the status quo. Therefore, I deem that when I am filling out my ballot, when presented with the usual array of non-competitive races, my vote is best spent trying to do something, anything, to highlight that there are alternatives to the status quo, or at least to help alternatives overcome the state’s ballot access requirements that serve to protect the status quo.

If enough people did that, there would be a slightly greater chance that something would change, either by finding critical mass to improve the political architecture in the state, or by the potential for races to suddenly start seeming competitive causing the major parties to run better candidates.

(I should also point out that all of the above was directed towards the general election. In a one-party-rule state, the real election is at the primary. When primaries are held for state offices, I do temporarily affiliate with the party so I can cast a vote in the primary…although even there, competitive races are annoyingly uncommon.)

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Ah. I missed that. Yes, I’ve voted third party as a protest when the race isn’t competitive. I voted against Bill Clinton the second time he ran for president because i believed him guilty of rape. But if the race had been competitive in my state I’m not certain what i would have done.

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Yeah, therein lies the rub. Hence my “no good way out” comment.

I’d love for a two-state solution to work. But I’m skeptical that either side will truly agree in their hearts.

I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016. My state wasn’t close and it wasn’t predicted to be close and he was the least objectionable of all the candidates.

But Trump proved to be far worse than I feared so at this point “anyone but Trump” gets my vote… which means Biden.

Sure, but once a protest crosses the threshold from legal into illegal I think it’s reasonable to break it up.

I am in no way advocating for the repeal of the first amendment in whole or in part.

I think it depends on the urgency of the situation.

People yelling threatening things can be selectively removed.

One person throwing things can be selectively removed.

I’m not sure if those are realistic things for the protests you are thinking about, but “break up protests immediately once one person does something wrong” should not be “the way it is.”