Insurance Co CEO Shot Dead in the Street

All y’all are assuming a lot.

They may not have been covered by insurance at all, but simply paid cash for everything.

But that doesn’t mean you necessarily get care – or, more specifically, get the results you want. Chronic pain is very difficult to cure. Sometimes there is no cure. You can throw a bunch of money at it, and get very little useful relief, other than a drug problem, perhaps.

But, more specifically, you’re just assuming there is some rational motive behind Luigi Mangione’s acts.

He may be mentally ill, you know, with his acts having little connection to reality. There may have been only a tenuous connection between his family’s experience with healthcare and what he wrote and did.

https://www.wsj.com/us-news/luigi-mangione-family-baltimore-a47ac28e

Luigi Mangione’s Mother Spent Months Searching for a Son Who Didn’t Want to Be Found

Before Kathy Mangione became known as the mother of a suspected assassin, she was just a parent looking for her son.

She had desperately searched for 26-year-old Luigi Mangione for the better part of a year, according to people close to the family. One said that he “went off the grid six months to a year ago and wasn’t communicating with anybody,” and that his distraught mother was doing all she could to find him. Another said the Ivy League engineering graduate was “MIA for about eight months.”

Over the past year, the family was at a loss for where Luigi was or what he was doing, according to the people close to the Mangiones. In the fall, his relatives emailed many of his friends to seek their help. One friend posted to Luigi on X, “Hey, are you ok? Nobody has heard from you in months, and apparently your family is looking for you.” In November, his mother reportedly called the San Francisco Police Department to report her son missing.

“She would have done everything to find her son and couldn’t,” said one of those close to the Mangiones.

Luigi Mangione didn’t have UnitedHealthcare insurance, nor did his mother, according to a company spokesman, who didn’t provide information about the father.

There are indications he had been distancing himself from his family at least a year before cutting ties, based on interviews, posts bearing his name on the Goodreads book-review site and on Reddit posts thought to have been written by Mangione, with a handle matching other posts attributed to him.

He had joined Reddit as a teenager, mostly to compare notes about the mobile game Pokémon Go. Over time, he increasingly sought out the counsel of strangers, particularly about a coterie of ailments that he said doctors couldn’t provide answers for. He was plagued by brain fog, which he said seemed to linger for months after a bout of heavy drinking during his fraternity’s “hell week.” He also had a baffling gut ailment and a chronic back condition, which was frequently debilitating.

“The people around you probably won’t understand your symptoms—they certainly don’t for me,” he wrote.

A few months after surgery on his back in late July 2023, he left for a trek around Asia, according to photos shared by travelers he met and his own posts on Reddit. One was a how-to primer on traveling indefinitely out of a lone backpack. He had recently added several self-help books to his “to read” list on Goodreads, including “Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting or Self-Involved Parents.”

One of the last books he added was on Nov. 18, a week or so before detectives say he arrived in New York. It was Goethe’s “Faust,” the German legend about a man who abandoned his past.

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When you come from wealth, you usually feel that money will solve any problem you encounter.

LM found out the hard way that this is not true.

Add in his age (less than 30) and he likely wasn’t able to mentally cope with a potential lifetime of chronic pain.

So he lashed out.

But his lashing out was very likely related to his depression and use of psychedelics.

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Patti Hearst’s and Sara Bronfman’s families were pretty rich as well. Sometimes the child has different priorities than the parents.

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Hey, I’ve been on team, “no rational motive” from the get-go

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Seems likely, as allegedly Mangione was never insured by UHC

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I once started a poll on AO Political showing a very strong negative correlation between family wealth and capitalist beliefs.

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Income inequality is bad and we should do something about it. 8% of people lacking health insurance is bad and we should do something about it. Ditto for surprise billings and the administrative burden that we shift on to the health consumer.

I don’t think that is driving the rise of populism, though. If it was, Bernie Sanders would be going into term 2 instead of Donald Trump.

People are lonely. Isolated. Having less sex. Forming fewer households and friendships. And not unrelated: spending entirely too much time on the internet.

I don’t say this to trivialize anyone’s problems on a personal level, because those are very real. Population wide though, we seem utterly incapable of recognizing huge wins. 50M gaining insurance under ACA. $800B of green energy investment and a grid that is getting more carbon neutral each year. My fellow democrats just don’t feel these and media diet is my best guess as to why.

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Lots of good stuff on the AO just… obliterated. :frowning:

Future generations are worse off for it.

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Just on the back-end of this one as I had a similar issue.

When I had a fairly serious athletic injury (in my late 20s) I needed to find adequate healthcare to improve the situation.

Now, my family had plenty of wealth so the real problem was:

Pin-pointing exactly what specialist I needed to see to get the care that I needed.

I went into the whole debacle with a certain amount of medical knowledge, but this proved inadequate. I ended up bouncing around from specialist to specialist, paying in many tens of thousands of $$$, but without being able to resolve my healthcare issue.

The entire process was hugely discouraging and its really hard to stay positive.

So I realised at that point that the only way to help myself was to materially increase my understanding of medical science, in order to direct my treatment. This eventually worked out for me (I found a specalist that worked with me to fix the issue) but this took many years.

Now, LM sounds like he had a pretty good level of education, so he most likely got discouraged by the process of getting a diagnosis and optimal treatment.

So what exactly was the issue?

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I had a sports injury that caused peripheral neuropathy.

Nerve pain is the absolute worst because you can’t really work around it. Even painkillers only work short-term, as you run into the problem of diminishing returns and addiction in the long-run.

Being wealthy doesn’t solve the problem if you don’t know how to deploy it to help your specific case.

What I found in most places that I went to (US/Europe/UK) was constant testing (every specialist wanted to do their own tests) but very few answers that actually helped me.

This was obviously hugely expensive and you do get discouraged by it all.

It wasn’t till I educated myself enough in medical science, and looked at all the tests done by the various doctors (they don’t really talk to each other as well) that I was able to zero in on the problem and specifically ask for tests and treatment.

This worked for me but it took many years and a lot of $$$

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What a pain

I’m surprised you didn’t get better treatment in America

Normally if you go to a large teaching hospital (basically any large hospital associated with a medical school/residency program). Doctors of all ages will do grand rounds together and solve medical mysteries

Thank god for webmd

Not nearly as bad, but I had a leg issue earlier this year. One of those that radiates to different spots depending on the day.

I hesitate to even go to the doctor for this stuff because I know it’ll be lots of effort and incomplete answers.

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I have some nerve damage/inflammation in my foot. My PCP sent me to a foot doctor. The foot doctor diagnosed it with a simple physical examination…after I had already been sent back for xrays. Her suggestion for treatment was fairly simple, but I found other suggestions online that helped dramatically more. That sort of thing is a bit of trial and error, but this seems like something my PCP should have been able to catch, or at least the foot doctor before an xray.

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I’m fortunate to be able to book an appointment directly with an ortho/neuro practice when I have nerve and joint pain, no referral needed. That’s how I got my rotator cuff diagnosed quickly and that’s how I got my disc issues diagnosed, and didn’t have to wait months to schedule my spine surgery (although I did have to pay for the MRI out of pocket, which was fortunately only $500).

Comparably, when I was having my gallbladder issues and was working with my PCP to get it resolved, it was misdiagnosed twice over a period of about a month (it was an agonizing month) before blood work confirmed I was jaundiced and was sent to the ER. If I hadn’t started to get jaundiced I doubt it would have been solved for many more months; gallbladder wasn’t even on my doctor’s radar since I didn’t present with typical symptoms.

That’s why I’m reluctant to see my PCP for issues where I’m pretty sure I know what the diagnosis will be.

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This kind of reminds me of buying real estate.

Brokers and agents and title companies are ostensibly experts on all this stuff, but ultimately, nobody is gonna care as much about the transaction as you, the buyer/seller. So it really benefits you to be on the ball.

Especially tricky with medicine, given that physicians often assume that you’ve gone down quackery rabbit holes if you bring up your own research.

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So the NYT has delved a bit deeper into LMs medical history and some stuff is starting to make a bit more sense.

Lime disease can seemingly go away with treatment and then show up again much later on. It can cause all sorts of neural and cognitive problems. This very likely contributed to his frustration in a big way because he was then not able to measure up to the expectations of his family (which until that point in time he had been meeting).

This is a good article that goes into his backstory:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/us/luigi-mangione-gunman-united-healthcare-shooting.html?smid=url-share

I feel for the mother. The son shut her out on something she could have helped him carry better if he only opened up to her to understand how she managed it. They could have helped each other.

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Crosspost insignificant signals thread?

TIL there exists non-GMO canola oil. But it is rare.