Hypocrisy of US politicians toward a separation of Church and State

[The_Polymath]

Orthodox Church has a lot of power in Russia.

Massively corrupt now, but Putin likes to keep them close because the older crowd is still very religious and conservative.

[The_President]

@The_Polymath

One of the reasons I tend to like Canada a bit more than the US is that US folks tend to have some pretty obvious ideological blinders on when it comes to believing in a magical being hiding behind a curtain.

This is mostly a %s game, as in similar people exist in both countries and the outcomes you are observing are related to smallish differences in proportions.

[The_Polymath]

I am not so sure about this.

I think that at this point is pretty obvious to any logical and objective person that Trump is effectively trying to destroy US Democracy. He is spectacularly unfit for office.

Further to this, its also pretty obvious that he is using the evangelicals as a vehicle to get votes (Trump sees them as suckers to be played. He does not believe in religion. Never has)

You cannot separate that from your own personal religious belief because the two are very much related.

This is the classic its not my problem line even though wink wink I think the religion he is approving off is my own and I support it.

This problem has always existed in the US, but it was just less glaring before because the religious politicians they supported were not so spectacularly unfit for office.

Canadians get angry at this because right now that individual (Trump) is attacking their country, while the religious people in the US give him a pass because its their own religion.

This is really not a problem in Canada or the UK.

[ArthurItas]

Like Jesus said, you should do unto others before they do it to you first.

[now_samantha]

I feel that the Democrats have, for pretty much as long as I can remember, sucked at messaging because they spend too much time trying to build a large tent and never say anything that might offend a portion of their base. The ceding of religion to the Republicans is an example of that. There is no inherent reason why being religious = being conservative.

[The_President]

I guess my point is that what is preventing thing from happening elsewhere is not as secure as you are suggesting.

[Jasper07734]

It took me a while to search for the original picture in question.

My take, for what it’s worth (which could be nothing): I think(?) SL’s point is that although it is true that other presidents have done this publicly, it rings hollower for Trump than for others because he wasn’t really perceived to be religious at all until he realized he needed to be to win office as an R. I don’t think(?) SL is actually saying that the practice itself is bizarre or whatever, just that this particular instance of it, assuming it’s a real picture, is bizarre because Trump is seen as having an un-genuine relationship with faith. Everyone’s tone about it isn’t helping to see that distinction, though.

But I’m not consistently observant in my own faith, so what do I know.

[ArthurItas]

Done

[SredniVashtar]

@ArthurItas

Done

Thank God! I can breathe.

[dr_t_non-fan]

@Jasper07734

My take, for what it’s worth (which could be nothing): I think(?) SL’s point is that although it is true that other presidents have done this publicly, it rings hollower for Trump than for others because he wasn’t really perceived to be religious at all until he realized he needed to be to win office as an R.

Also, it hopefully will show that the Power of Christ (and his teachings) does not compel him, and maybe some will withdraw support. Nah. Too afraid of his power that they gave him now.

[SredniVashtar]

@SpaceLobster

In any other country this.would be treated as insanity, because it is. In the us however , everyone thinks its quite normal.

Its not normal. Its effin bizarre.

I agree that religion itself is bizarre.

I don’t get your hypocrisy thing. Imo, US law does not have a big separation between church and state. It’s in the Constitution but only in a limited squishy way.

[Triweasel]

Ok, now fix Poly’s post above.

[magillaG]

@The_Polymath

This problem has always existed in the US, but it was just less glaring before because the religious politicians they supported were not so spectacularly unfit for office.

The religious vote really became important in the US starting with Reagan and Billy Graham. But it started with Eisenhower. (I read a book on that.)

I think we all tend to trust people whom we think share our values. This applies to religion in the US, if that is what you are getting at.

Personally, i’m not so concerned at people praying over trump. The issue to me seems to be that, more and more, they seem to be praying to Trump (and sometimes to the country as well).

[Maphistos_Sidekick]

@SredniVashtar

US law does not have a big separation between church and state. It’s in the Constitution but only in a limited squishy way.

Also, there is a significant minority of voters who believe that the separation between church and state is just government staying out of the way of religion, but not the other way around.

C.f. provisions in several states’ constitutions that certain office-holders be theists, and public resistance against removing them when it comes up.

[PatrickBauer]

I told him (Jerry Falwell) to preach the Gospel. That’s our calling. I want to preserve the purity of the Gospel and the freedom of religion in America. I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. Liberals organized in the '60s, and conservatives certainly have a right to organize in the '80s, but it would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it.
-Billy Graham, 1 February 1981

It would be unfortunate if people got the impression all evangelists belong to that group. The majority do not. I don’t wish to be identified with them. I’m for morality. But morality goes beyond sex to human freedom and social justice. We as clergy know so very little to speak out with such authority on the Panama Canal or superiority of armaments. Evangelists can’t be closely identified with any particular party or person. We have to stand in the middle to preach to all people, right and left. I haven’t been faithful to my own advice in the past. I will be in the future.
-Billy Graham

I don’t think Billy Graham would be happy now with how many more evangelists fall into “that group.”

The rise of corporate Christianity is a problem. They have usurped the voice of Christianity across America by being capitalistic and corporate in their pursuit of wealth. Just like Trump and Musk are the embodiment of the worst aspects of capitalism, corporate Christian churches and leaders are the embodiment of the worst aspects of the Christian religion.

Trump, Musk and the corporate Christian leaders show an astounding lack of empathy toward anyone that does not pay them a tithe. They have proven they are here as rulers, not leaders.

[The_Polymath]

I have noticed the same Corporate Christianity theme in Brazil as they also have mega churches. You will find a lot of evangelicals there as well.

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Those entities simply do not exist at scale in countries like the UK and Canada.

[ArthurItas]

Can you even call it proper worship now if your church doesn’t own a corporate jet?

[J0EBL0W]

@Vorian_Atreides

#3. Demonstrating intolerance to someone’s religious beliefs is still against the TOS of this site. Criticize insincerity and hypocrisy of political figures, but let’s avoid criticizing the beliefs themselves.

So you don’t think any religious belief should be criticized, no matter what that belief is? Things like female genital mutilation or blood atonement are beyond criticism?

[Jasper07734]

@PatrickBauer

The rise of corporate Christianity is a problem.

Yup. That “Prosperity Gospel” that treats God as some kind of cosmic vending machine, and faith as basically a Dhar Mann video. If you say the right prayers at the right times to/for the right people, (and your wallet does too,) then you will have nice things in life. But if you don’t do those things, your life will be completely and utterly destroyed. CLLLLAIIIIM IT!!!1

[Jasper07734]

When I lived in Atlanta, a friend once told me about a local pastor who drives a Bentley. What would Jesus drive? Apparently a Bentley.