Never had to look this up before for fringe lines, and usually someone else already has the loss costs prepared.
Anyone know where to look?
actually, any bureau for that matter
Moved to an area where you might get better traction for the question.
If you need it back in Sandbox for a while longer, let a mod know and we can move it back.
Hm. Without an ISO login, it does appear difficult to answer your question. I would think ISOād want to advertise what it actually publishes. Seems strange. Although āfringeā line makes me think itās less likely to actually have published loss costs anywhere.
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Yeah thatās what Iām going with. I just donāt know how to be 100% sure.
Without knowing which āfringeā . . . but Iād hazard the guess that itās likely āburiedā within some other line.
Thatās a good point. You can PM me with specifics if youād like and I can try to be of further use.
A little quality time with Google revealed this link from the Texas DOI. I havenāt dug too deep, but it might provide a clue or two.
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If you have an ISO account then Products => Circulars => search by state and LOB
Agreed, but I have the sense that JSM doesnāt have ISOnet access, and the question left open the possibility of other rating bureaus.
yeah, no account here.
And Iām fairly certain the line isnāt buried. I believe it has its own line in the financial statement.
Thanks! Yeah doesnāt seem like my line is listed.
Thatās good.
Hereās another thought: You could call ISO/state bureau and ask, although if your company is not a member or subscriber, I donāt know if they will reply.
Or you could call your favorite insurance department actuary and ask.
And as long as weāre on this subject, arenāt insurers supposed to report their data to insurance departments, a function that rating bureaus do on behalf of insurers? How do fringe lines get reported? How do E&O and D&O get reported to the Florida Insurance Department, for example?
Itās been 15ish years, but back when I was working on on-boarding various oddball specialty P&C products, discussions on setting up the coding for those products usually included a consultation with our stat reporting group.
My (possibly erroneous) impression is that ISO stat plans include codes for business that doesnāt align with their loss costs, and/or supports broad āall otherā sorts of coding.
High level data gets reported to comply with requirementsā¦but details to do fun analysis would be sparse.
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I bet most companies donāt write E&O or D&O out of a company domiciled in Florida. Every place Iāve worked that wrote that kind of stuff was actually a group, and had a lot of underlying legal entities. That being said, Iāve never worked in reporting or compliance, and I have no idea what the rules are about writing a commercial FL coverage out of your Bermuda or even Delaware corporation.
Hi Lucy,
Doesnāt an insurer report its state data to every state where it is licensed, regardless of state domicile?
The statistical bureau collects stat plan data and handles this reporting requirement for the major lines. Iāve never been clear how the insurance department gets data for the fringe lines. Or do they not worry about this?
They certainly do for personal lines. I dunno, do they do it for every line? If you write E&O on a multinational, what state is that based in? The state where the insured is domiciled? The state where the insurer is domiciled? Distributed by some measure of exposure?
Anyhow, Iāve certainly looked up info that ISO created, but as I said above, I have no experience in reporting or compliance, and Iāve always worked for large companies that have departments to do that stuff. (Iāve also spent most of my career on the large commercial side of things, where contracts are negotiated, exposure measures may be negotiated, and thereās an awful lot of actuarial work that is very far away from whatever we end up telling the states.)
Hi Lucy,
Iām sure there is always some measure of exposure to allocate business. Even the presidentās salary is going to be allocated by line of business, profit center, etc.
I think one of Sholomās papers includes a statement about there are many things that are done for accounting and reporting purposes that are not explicitly told to the states.
When I worked in primary, we once had a large WC policy that had an underlying state manual rate pricing, but somehow for the NCCI and Page 14 reporting the entire premium got allocated to the first state alphabetically, which was Alabama. The next year this got fixed, which resulted in a negative premium for Alabama, who otherwise was a small state for us. My recollection was that NCCI was not amused.
Oops!
But normally WC, Commercial Auto, and all the personal lines are pretty easy to allocate to states. Iām not so sure about some of the other lines. If anyone does that, and knows how itās done, Iād be curious.
I got curious and did a little more poking around (after confirming that my ISOnet login doesnāt get me access to their stat plan documents).
The Washington DOI has this page relevant to the statistical reporting discussion: Statistical reporting for P&C insurers | Washington state Office of the Insurance Commissioner
It references an NAIC handbook: https://content.naic.org/sites/default/files/publications-sta-zu-statistical-handbook.pdf
That handbookās most recent copyright date is 2012, so Iām not certain if thatās currentā¦but it has the following scope:
A few tidbits I saw in other states seem similar (e.g., I think a Vermont reg reads similar to the NAIC manual, with the addition of āother lines as determined by the Commissionerā), although I do note that Florida apparently has a data call for claims data for certain professional lines claims.
Thinking back to my work oboarding and working with new/oddball productsā¦I donāt actually remember having to go into gory, tortuous detail with many of the professional lines coverages, and the challenges I sometimes had with inland and ocean marine data would have hinted at problems in reporting to a statistical agent.
I wonder if the answer to the question, āHow do E&O and D&O get reported to the Florida Insurance Department, for example?ā is simply that they donāt get reported beyond whatās implicit in the annual statement/IEE/etc, surplus lines statement if applicable, rate filings if applicable, and any special data calls from the state.