Gun Violence in America

[JFG]

@Ted_Hoffman

shoot 5, 10, 15, 20 kids up so badly authorities need DNA samples to identify remains.

I felt sick when I read about that.

[Cooke]

@JFG

There are people whose thinking is based on bastardized interpretation of much older documents, so…

Sounds similar to conservative Christians and the Bible…

[John.S.Mill]

I think that’s what he meant…

[NormalDan]

It all just makes me sad. Sad as an American that we’ve decided as a country this is a risk we’re just willing to accept. We should have higher standards for ourselves.

[Indy]

Sure. Canada seems to have reasonable laws, maybe that was your reference.

Federal control, register “restricted” guns, license to buy or possess, need to register every transfer of ownership. I compare that to autos – we need to qualify for a driver’s license to drive a car and every car needs to be registered. Especially relevant to mass shootings, Trudeau is trying to outlaw “assault style” guns. I think there is a psychological factor that makes mass shootings with those guns more attractive.

I think in the US, as long as private sellers don’t need to do background checks, people who can’t pass those checks can get guns. So just “toughing up” background check requirements (as one example) doesn’t seem very effective to me.

With everything gun related in the US, political will is central. We have the guns laws that we’ve got because this is what’s politically possible. It’s hard to find examples of what might be politically within reach that would also make a difference. And, then we have the 2A and the SC…

[Cooke]

@John.S.Mill

in the US we are obsessed with the constitution

Is that an attitude that is ingrained at an early age? How is the Constitution portrayed to kids in the teaching of American history? Just trying to understand the obsession as I have nothing to compare with personally except maybe Bible teachings in Sunday school when I was a kid

[SredniVashtar]

I’m not sure we are obsessed with the constitution, so much as obsessed with the amendment in the constitution that let’s us buy a gun.

[Ted_Hoffman]

Canada also, from everything I’ve seen, doesn’t have a huge gun fetish culture like the U.S. does. We have 4 guns here at the house: a trap shooting rifle, 2 handguns for sport, and then the oldest child’s rifle which he uses to target shoot because he’s in the military and … kind of important to stay up on that. Maybe if we decided we wanted to take up hunting, we’d get one more - but otherwise, I can’t see us suddenly amassing a small arsenal to protect our side of town.

That’s us, though. We’re not the government could show up any day, I need to go buy more guns and ammo just in case or huh, _____ happened, guess I’ll pick up a few more boxes of ammo on the way home to go with the 3,000 boxes I already have on hand. Not real difficult to drive around and see who those people are.

The obsession with the Constitution really depends on whether courts say what one side wants it to say. It really started when flag burning was declared constitutionally-protected free speech and the right got up in arms and demanded a constitutional amendment to prohibit flag burning. While that never got anywhere, it did start to prompt the push by the right to pack the courts to issue right-friendly rulings on a variety of issues, regardless of what the law and the Constitution said. We’ve seen that manifest in rulings over the last several years. If anything, rulings that are more progressive-oriented are the real surprise.

In a sane world, we’d probably write a new Constitution to reflect knowledge in the 21st century and it would be reasonably liberal in that it would better reflect what the Founding Fathers intended + advances in society over the last 225 years. In the United States in 2022, such a Constitution would be very theocratic and authoritarian in lean because of how many states would send people with those ideas to a convention to draw that constitution up.

[YankeeTripper]

Once again NRA is banning guns at their convention.

[AcademicActuary]

Possible solutions which will both protect gun rights and keep our children safe:

Fox News Floats ‘Man Traps,’ ‘Ballistic Blankets’ to Stop School Shootings

[Cooke]

@Ted_Hoffman

In a sane world, we’d probably write a new Constitution to reflect knowledge in the 21st century and it would be reasonably liberal in that it would better reflect what the Founding Fathers intended + advances in society over the last 225 years. In the United States in 2022, such a Constitution would be very theocratic and authoritarian in lean because of how many states would send people with those ideas to a convention to draw that constitution up.

Canada went through this process in 1982 under the leadership of Pierre Trudeau. It was a painful, divisive political process but resulted in the inclusion of a modern, enlightened Charter of Rights and Freedoms as part of the Constitution. Quebec still has not adopted it though.

You make a good observation. If the US underwent a similar process, but it was heavily influenced by a certain segment of the Republican Party, the US might well find itself going in the opposite direction of liberalizing the Constitution.

[3rookie]

@SredniVashtar

I’m not sure we are obsessed with the constitution, so much as obsessed with the amendment in the constitution that let’s us buy a gun.

(IN GENERAL) The US is obsessed with groupthink and “our side vs. the other side” mentality. Guns fit neatly into this hole. Thank you politics, internet, and media.

This type of event is impossible to eliminate completely, and that is a cost of living in a free society. However, the frequency can be drastically reduced by reasonable gun laws.

I’ll tip my hat to the new Constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution

[tommie.frazier]

how does a background check work on an 18 yo? aren’t all juvenile things shielded from that process? so why can’t we wait for some larger age?

@indy - something that removes the speed at which mass killing can happen should get support. why is 6 the number - could it be 4? also, the bullets themselves that are designed as the AR15 bullets are have no use by citizens outside of military setting.

[Maphistos_Sidekick]

@Cooke

But don’t you think that, if the right thing to do now is to make changes, than the origins shouldn’t constrain you from doing the right thing? Why should any country be bound by the thinking from 200+ years ago?

I think there are changes that need to be made. However, I also think that changes are unlikely to be made in large part because distrust of government is ingrained in the political philosophy spoken of by a significant proportion of the American population.

[SteveGrondin]

@Ted_Hoffman

In a sane world, we’d probably write a new Constitution to reflect knowledge in the 21st century and it would be reasonably liberal in that it would better reflect what the Founding Fathers intended + advances in society over the last 225 years. In the United States in 2022, such a Constitution would be very theocratic and authoritarian in lean because of how many states would send people with those ideas to a convention to draw that constitution up.

Pretty much, but it seems weird to me that gun control, using the term to mean more restrictive regulation on gun ownership, is “liberal” and not “authoritarian”.

[Maphistos_Sidekick]

@Ted_Hoffman

In a sane world, we’d probably write a new Constitution to reflect knowledge in the 21st century and it would be reasonably liberal in that it would better reflect what the Founding Fathers intended + advances in society over the last 225 years. In the United States in 2022, such a Constitution would be very theocratic and authoritarian in lean because of how many states would send people with those ideas to a convention to draw that constitution up.

Amen.

The thocrats/autocrats have analogous feelings about what “the libs” would do if they rewrote the Constitution, FWIW. Given our apparent collective inability to compromise or find consensus, I don’t expect much to change, unless/until there’s an actual split between Ameristan and more enlightened parts of the country.

[John.S.Mill]

things will probably change if say, someone targets the kids of republican congressmen, or a republican president.

[Maphistos_Sidekick]

I doubt it.

It’s more likely that a conspiracy theorist will claim that such an attack was engineered by “the libs” to prompt an anti-gun response. Given how far the GOP has fallen into alternative reality, that claim will catch on and prompt resistance to change.

[Cooke]

@3rookie

I’ll tip my hat to the new Constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution

Loved those lyrics 50 years ago and still love them. Thanks for reviving them!

[Cooke]

@SteveGrondin

Pretty much, but it seems weird to me that gun control, using the term to mean more restrictive regulation on gun ownership, is “liberal” and not “authoritarian”.

I would agree if you are using the word “liberal” in the classic sense rather than the way it is now used politically.

I might argue that your freedom to own an AR15 endangers the lives of others so you are reducing many others’ freedoms as a result: individual versus collective rights. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms had a qualifier that individual rights couldn’t negatively impact the rights of others. An example would be the truckers freedom to protest in Ottawa: that reduced other peoples’ freedoms.