Still don’t worship anything based on that definition.
1 Like
There are a lot of folks that self identify as Christians that behave in an un-Christlike manner and never go to church. Not sure self identification is the proper standard to judge what one “worships”. If self identification is the proper standard, why do people disagree when others self identify that they don’t worship anything?
1 Like
I think the word “worship” has several contexts and here it is meant in the more colloquial sense. “He worships the ground she walks on” is a common expression, yet no one literally does that. Juliet tells Romeo “thou art the God of my idolatry” yet she was brought up in a Roman Catholic home and turns to a priest when she needs counsel. (Of course they do both ultimately prioritize their relationship over their faith, to their detriment.)
“The almighty dollar” is another common expression yet no one literally prays to money in the same way that we pray to God. Yet Christ himself cautions us that we cannot serve both God and money. And we in fact do prioritize money and material goods over God at least sometimes.
So I think the idea that we are worshipping other Gods / other things comes from this more colloquial interpretation than a literal sense. Capturing Christ’s admonition, the first commandment (thou shalt have no other Gods before me) and a secular recognition that it is easy to get your priorities mixed up, rather than a literal definition of worship.
The thing is, that colloquial sense also doesn’t apply to me.
1 Like
Sure… sometimes there is a disconnect between words and thoughts and deeds.
But I think someone could be a McDonalds cook or an actuary or an astronaut or some other non-religious job for 40 hours a week and spend 1-10 hours a week reading the Bible, attending worship services, praying, attending a small group, volunteering, tithing, and legitimately be prioritizing their faith over their job or their money.
My family is very important to me, but I don’t worship my partner, we’re equals, if I worshipped them I’d have to always prioritize them over me, and eventually that would break down.
I see religion as trying to take our natural instinct to love family and co opt it to allow an institution to have power over us.
Everyone loves.
Worship is created by religion to foster blind obedience.
1 Like
Nah, unless you’re donating most of your salary.
Disagree
You could certainly say you’re more faithful than most people.
But I wouldn’t say you are “prioritizing God”, unless God has asked you for nothing more than that.
I suppose a lot of people would say “just follow the commandments, easy peasy” which I guess would count. Sort of a low-maintenance relationship. Can you worship a low-maintenance person?
As an example, we have the (apocryphal) story of the nasa janitor who, when asked about his job, says it’s to send people to the moon. There we have a modern person finding greater meaning in his daily activity.
This is very different from a person in the middle ages taking mass, having their life sanctified and giving meaning, and then taking that home with them.
And this is very different from an ancient christian taking the eucharist as, in part, a feast for the dead.
Or Emerson in 19th century america practicing transcendental meditation, trying to lose himself in mystical union with the all-mind (or whatever he called it.)
Or a buddhist monk trying to lose himself in meditation (which is much getting farther away from what i know.)
These activities are all radically different, but they have a common element of a search for meaning, filtered through very different cultures.
What do we call this common element? I guess worship is as good as anything, at least for this thread. I’m not sure it’s my first choice for a word. But i think people are getting too caught up in it, somehow.
We could call it a “search for meaning”. Fits better than “worship”.
1 Like
I agree that worship is universal across all peoples everywhere. What i don’t agree is that it’s universal to all people in any given society. As I said above, i think people vary a great deal in how religious they are (which is related to your concept of worship.)
Music is universal across all human cultures, but there are people who are tone deaf, and people who have little or no interest in it. And there are other people who shape their lives around music. By analogy, there are people who are insensitive to the very idea that life should have meaning, there are people who can engage with that, but rarely think about it or make decisions based on it. And there are people who care a lot about the meaning of life, and people who have given their entire life to the pursuit of the holy.
Now, if you want to use the definition given by @NerdAlert , that worship just means prioritize, sure everyone has priorities. Rats have priorities. Moths have priorities. It’s true that everyone has some priorities (maybe not a single overwhelming one) but it’s not an interesting or deep statement.
3 Likes
This would make more sense to me, but I did not get that impression from the other posters here advocating the “everyone worships something” position
I am not so convinced there are people who do not care at all about meaning. Obviously some people care much more about it than others.
But even those who do not care are still swept up into patterns of behavior that implicitly give priority of value to something. In America, you will probably be a good consumer, and support the value of capitalist economic development, with an emphasis on individual choice. In china, perhaps, you will contribute to their goal of communalism and china as a resurgent global power.
It is something you can decide not to think about. But it isn’t really something you can opt out of because your life is embedded in a larger society.
That is part of my claim. I don’t think it is particularly christian. The second part of my claim is that you ought to ask yourself: what values are you really supporting? That is influenced by my protestant background, although i’m not sure how uniquely protestant it is. I completely agree that a lot of people do not do this.
What you are describing here is culture, not worship.
3 Likes
I don’t think you can completely separate culture from worship.
You often have areas designated as holy or profane.
But just because they are spatially separated doesn’t mean they are separate in the life of the person.
And we don’t even have that much separation in american society anymore. Yet those impulses live on. For example, why did everyone get so upset over the kneeling of football players? It’s because it was more than just a football game.
Worship is redefined to include likes/dislikes, priorities, culture, personal beliefs, and preferred style of underwear. We all worship something!
3 Likes
Everyone didn’t. There’s probably a big overlap though between those that consider themselves believers and were enraged by that.
1 Like
I’d also add that protestant christianity pretty much does away with the idea that a particular area is objectively “holy”. All that matters is the subjective faith of the people involved. This is why a protestant church is just a building when nobody is there, while a catholic church is still considered a sacred place.
Once that distinction is gone, “worship” can have a much greater range of meaning. I’d say what some people here are calling “worship” is what i would call church service. But it is only a service because the people involved are thinking about god. There is nothing about the ritual itself that gives it validity. This is unlike the catholic church; in that case, it is the sacramental powers of the priest that makes it holy (or however i’m supposed to say it.)
this, actually, is what kept the lutherans from rejoining the catholic church. it was not a matter of transubstantiation. rather, it was the authority by which the mass could take place. for luther, it was the faith of the congregation; for the roman church, the authority of the priests.
given that, it seems to me that lots of things can legitimately be called “worship.” working at a homeless shelter can be, if the person involved is thinking about god. and i feel like i have heard the word used that way.
so i think people here are taking a very narrow view of the way the word “worship” is used.