I’ve argued with some candidates who’ve failed exams that insist that the CAS purposefully fails more candidates so that they can collect extra money from the exam fees. One of my arguments was that no one at the CAS (and especially the exam committees) personally profits from the extra exam fees collected by repeat takers, and that the CAS makes just as much money if candidates become annual due-paying members. The greed motive just doesn’t make sense.
Maybe I’m the one who’s naïve.
I think the CAS had become a lot more revenue focused on the past few years.
Anyway, i think it’s crazy that they are charging for diplomas. If i thought physical diplomas were becoming less relevant, i would start by giving them to any newly credentialed actuary who requested it, and i wouldn’t charge a separate fee for it until fewer than 20% requested it, and then only if it cost me enough to produce that the fee seemed worth it.
A small fee is acceptable if it comes in FRAMED
What exactly are they spending the money on? Is it published anywhere?
Start paying the volunteers imo.
This is a very reasonable, and perhaps the most logical, approach.
I wonder why/how something like this put into action? Surely someone at the CAS had a similar idea?
I reached out to the CAS and this is what they told me:
Printed copies of member diplomas will come with a minimal charge. The digital diploma is free, and you can claim it online from your Parchment profile. Printed/Hard copies will be available, through the Parchment site for:
$40 for Associate Diploma
$60 for Fellow Diploma
If you are getting charged by parchment for a digital diploma then reach out to the CAS and ask for a refund.
My company said they would pay for it but it was mildly embarrassing to explain to my boss that I have to pay for my diploma. You should get the first one for free and be able to order replacements for $60 if you lose one while moving.
Hmm, charging 40 for an ACAS and 60 for an FCAS diploma. Surely just a cost measure.
Why are we allowing our society to milk a captive “customer” base on behalf of some shitty tech start-up?
Anyone have access to the CAS board minutes?Curious if this was even discussed at all or just handled by staff.
I agree it’s embarrassing, but more so for the current FCASs than the new ones
Yea, no fucking shot I’d have the balls to ask my company to reimburse this bullshit. We literally just got a formal exam program, and that was years in the making.
If you do work for a large employer of actuaries though, would be good to bring it up. Seems like CAS doesn’t actually care about rank and file opinions, but they do respond when large employers complain, like during the merger proposal a few years back.
It looks like they were discussed at the January board meeting:
Also, this whole paid diploma thing precipitated me looking at the CAS financials for the first time.
Operating income by year:
FY19 - 705,051
FY20 - (748,554)
FY21 - 1,359,248
Net income by year (Operating income + Investments/Pension liability changes)
FY19 - 345,141
FY20 - 480,974
FY21 - 4,549,300
Members Equity by year:
FY19 - 14,252,167
FY20 - 14,733,141
FY21 - 19,282,442
New Fellows/Associates by year:
2019 - 356/656
2020 - 77/253
2021 - 477/347
For 2021, providing printed diplomas for free would have cost the CAS at most (477 x 60) + (347 x 40) = $42,500, which is barely a dent in their overall expenses. Since one has to assume Parchment is doing this for a profit, this figure is the upper limit.
Seems like CAS doesn’t actually care about rank and file opinions, but they do respond when large employers complain, like during the merger proposal a few years back.
I agree. The only way I think rank-and-file members can make an impact is by curtailing volunteering en masse. Why give the CAS all this free time and work if they are going to start nickel-and-dime’ing its membership?
I cannot access the minutes link, can anyone give me the TLDR?
I switched over to the SOA side so I have no skin in the game.
Due to the shift towards hybrid/remote work I think fewer and fewer people will hang their diplomas.
I was in the first wave of newly minted FSAs when Covid hit. I spent $200 framing my diploma in anticipation of hanging it up in my newly assigned office. Three years later my diploma is hanging in my work office where only me and my family have ever seen it.
It is just another piece of trash I have to dust off in my house. As I get older I have less room in my life/house for trash
My ASA and MAAA certificates are still in their cardboard mailers, I can’t bring myself to throw them away but in reality they are trash. I wish they were never mailed to me
Anyways I feel that the CAS should still mail out or present FCAS with diplomas. I kind of understand skipping ACAS diplomas since most of them will be useless once an actuary becomes and FCAS a few short years later
Through my messages with the CAS, I believe we will be receiving notification in short order that we will be receiving printed diplomas at no charge.
I’m not sure if this applies to ACAS as well, but suspect it does and we will find out soon regardless.
As usual, I think the CAS has massively failed in communication for what is a generally positive move. This is like a supermarket charging for single use bags — why do we need a printed diploma that has to be produced from trees, and then shipped across the country/globe using fossil fuels when a digital certificate works?
Definitely agree with you there.
Like I said before, I am very much looking forward to framing and hanging my diploma, even if just in my home office. For me, it represents the dedication and hard work I put in, as well as a reminder of the sacrifices my loved ones made.
The best path is probably to offer one free print that folks need to claim, if they so desire. That way there isn’t waste with printing for individuals who are indifferent or actively don’t want it.
Yeah, that probably makes sense.
Yeah, the way to ease out of printing them is to start by making people ask for a printed diploma, and then, when the number of people who do that drops to a low enough number, you consider asking them to pay something.
