I think Asian Americans have a higher income than most other groups, is that because of positive racism?
Are you arguing the fact that POC are pulled over by cops more than whites is a result of poverty because those stops are occurring in high crime areas and are not racial profiling?
No, they have not. They still exist in slightly modified forms that achieve the same goal.
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You keep saying this but that’s not making it any less false. I don’t know what kind of additional evidence you require before you accept that there are still plenty of systems in the USA that are still racist. Until then the rest of your conclusions will be faulty because they are built on false assumptions.
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To a large extent yes. Stops for busted tail lights and improper equipment happen more often with older and therefore cheaper cars. Police reasonably maintain a greater presence in high crime (read poor) areas, often on traffic detail when not responding to calls. They pull people over in the patrol areas.
Some of it is racial profiling just because in some areas it is unusual to see a black man driving a nice car around. So some cops investigate the unusual without probable cause. That is not right and shouldn’t happen. Also they can get a call from a community member doing profiling. Then they are obligated to investigate. Bad look for the cops, but just doing their jobs on that one. Also wouldn’t happen if racial poverty disparities weren’t a thing because then it wouldn’t be unusual.
I remembered another clear example of a racist policy.
The appeals court noted that the North Carolina Legislature “requested data on the use, by race, of a number of voting practices” — then, data in hand, “enacted legislation that restricted voting and registration in five different ways, all of which disproportionately affected African Americans.”
The changes to the voting process “target African Americans with almost surgical precision,” the circuit court wrote, and “impose cures for problems that did not exist.”
This is racism. 100%. And its part of the system.
This isn’t supported by the evidence in any way. This is just magical thinking because it validates your world view.
Another example. Why aren’t they searching cars with higher rates of illegal items?
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Would also be less unusual if zoning laws were not used to segregate out the poor minorities.
Correction: Some of the systems and policies have been removed and changed.
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And a few more are being added…
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Let’s assume that there is a “cycle of poverty”, meaning that poverty tends to propagate itself. If my parents are impoverished then I get fewer opportunities, and I am also more likely to be impoverished.
Let also suppose that racist policies like slavery and jim crow created these cycles of poverty for black americans. Those cycles have propagated themselves as they would for any group, and are responsible for black americans lower average income today.
I’d argue that in this case those cycles of poverty are still the products of racism. Racism is still the cause of the inequality that we see.
In this case, fixing the problem would probably not need to explicitly consider race. But the racism is still the cause.
I don’t know much about the history of asian americans as a group, and would not want to hazard a guess at what the cause is.
I am more familiar with the history of african americans, and based on that knowledge, i make a different guess
This is certainly a true statement but it misses that there is more going on than only poverty.
Poverty is a big one, but impoverished African Americans have additional hurdles above and beyond those faced by equally impoverished whites.
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This is my understanding as well. I was trying to argue that these additional hurdles are not necessary for poverty to be caused by racism (although they are sufficient.)
100%
Yes historical racism is a major root cause of the poverty. I have openly stated that in this thread.
The bold is my entire point. I would also argue that racism is no longer a primary obstacle for the ongoing nature of the racial wealth inequity. The obstacles now are in education, job opportunities, unintended perverse incentives in several government programs, and the cycle of poor choices these promote. (These choices include single parenthood, early pregnancies, too many children, drug use, crime as a way to earn needed income…)
How many times are you going to skip past the points around zoning restrictions and other laws are just a continuation of the more overtly racist versions of laws that existed before 1950?
Lets see if I understand your arguments.
Racism is a problem, but not worth addressing. We can only fight a single problem at a time.
Who cares what the historic reasons for racial disparities in poverty are. Who cares how racism is still affecting people. We can only focus on poverty.
Social programs like Medicaid and food assistance cause poverty. even though the evidence is completely against this. The data shows that social programs do an excellent job at reducing poverty but your opinion is unchanged by the data.
He’s not skipping past it. They don’t exist anymore. He’s said that many times.
Lat time I am answering your BS oversimplifications and obviously incorrect restatements JB.
I never said social programs cause poverty. Some of the perverse incentives built into the means testing encourages single parenthood and can encourage having additional children. These issues need to be fixed. This does not mean doing away with the programs.
Racism was a major problem. Now it is no longer a major problem. You’ll never do away with it entirely and focusing on it detracts from dealing with today’s issues in productive fashion.
We should not forget the historical reasons for racial disparities. Learning from history and teaching those lessons are the best way not to repeat them. What should not be done is to use these sad facts as a cudgel, crutch, or excuse or in any way to keep people divided on racial grounds.