So we’re saying university builds culture now? Hazing culture? Honestly this just sounds like propaganda to make people go to university, to feel “cultured” and superior to those who don’t, which is more than half the population. Very elitist imo.
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Historically, university have built culture. We would not have modern science or liberalism at all without the university system.
I think we have to be careful because “cultured” can also mean “well bred”, which I agree is very elitist. I don’t think that is the meaning here though.
A lot of people want to evaluate college degrees based on their economic rate of return. This is how a business might decide its allocation of capital. While it definitely has useful things to say about a college degree, it should not be the whole story, or even necessarily a particularly important part of the story. Basic research is similar. Trying to calculate the rate of return on a research topic doesn’t help much, since the delay between discovery and economic innovation is easily 50 years.
University (or what I call college) was just a continuation of high school to me. I don’t see how it was all cultural or whatever.
Some evidence for this cultural change is how much less likely those with college degrees are to support trump.
I do not think it’s just a matter of different economic impact.
Going to college tends to change the way you view the world in some way, at least on average.
It’s a different experience living on campus bs living at home. And it probably depends on the school and the students.
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I think it’s a combination of different economic impact and that idiots are too stupid to make it through college are more likely to support Trump than college itself making me hate trump. Nothing about my college experience made me a democrat.
yeah, and living on campus is kinda a privileged thing to do and isn’t cheap.
When you are going into crippling debt for it, it is the only story. Because if you cannot repay the loan, your whole life is fucked. Culture or no culture.
I’ll grant you that but that doesn’t mean colleges don’t contribute to culture. Maybe yours didn’t or maybe you didn’t participate in it.
Or if you went to school near NYC maybe any sort of culture is shadowed by the city? Just grasping at straws here in podunk America, where my city is your suburb. We have commuter schools that contribute to the culture here.
Sorry, I’m afraid you’re correct about not helping much.
I have no problems saying that lots of the most important things in life don’t connect to GDP numbers. You don’t have to be rich to love your spouse. I’m skeptical that those other things are really enhanced by college, at least for college for people who have average levels of intellectual curiosity.
So, it’s fun to reference some movie, book, or song on this forum because it makes us feel connected by having the same experience? Okay, I can buy that. But then …
do not necessarily Ned university degrees. But their patrons probably do.
I read that to say only university grads get to participate in this cultural community.
That’s my problem with “culture” as an undefined concept. Is popular country music “culture”? Does it require a college degree to either enjoy or produce?
That’s why I say we’ve got plenty of “culture” in the US without free or cheap access to college level music appreciation courses. People seem to participate in and enjoy “culture”, even if it’s not exactly what college profs specializing in certain things enjoy.
This conversation feels a lot like health care conversations. Where the services in question are both priceless and stupidly overpriced in America.
I don’t mind the culture argument, but it seems like not many people actually got $50k worth of culture out of college.
With traveling to Italy, my guess is most people would say “the experience was worth the money”, but here I’m not hearing it so much.
Again there’s parts of my college that were kind of priceless, in that I doubt I could have learned it all by myself. Other times, I wish I had simply been gifted a house, by my parents. Then maybe I could have a spent a decade getting encultured, reading Proust or some shit instead of working shitty jobs.
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I agree that colleges contributing to culture is not a good enough reason for the ridiculous price tags.
That reminds me, I needa update my I’ve only seen it printed thread.
You can argue the same for night life culture, or music festival culture. Or any experience for that matter. Anything you do builds something irreplaceable, even painful, traumatic experiences build “culture”.
It’s such a vacuous argument to justify something completely unjustifiable.
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why exactly is “college” not something that can be done in high school for this whole culture thing? I’m not entirely following why college culture is so important.
yeah, money buys experiences and “culture”, which includes the young adult party experience called “college”. okay.
no way this is why i’m a democrat though. it has nothing to do with my lame college experience. it’s because donald trump is a maniac as are many of those in his party. january 6th insurrection anyone???
picture it, October 3, 1995, scene ao fan’s college student union everyone gathered around the one tv.
Judge - members of the jury, how do you find this defendant?
jury - we the members of the jury, find the defendant, Orenthal James Simpson, not guilty on all charges.
student union breaks out into cheers and applause and ao fan is horrified and hates her college immediately
HE’S FUCKING GUILTY MOTHER FUCKERS.
was that me getting cultured?
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This frames college as an individual benefit for the which the individual must pay.
Then is it worth it to pay for with money you don’t have now and probably won’t have in the future? No, of course not, but i think that says more about the economic framework of college than it does the content of the education.
HS should be more like college (free, learn many different subjects, discover what your interests are, learn how to socialize), college should be more like grad school (not free, not required, pay money to hone in on a particular skillset you’ve decided you want to invest in)
That reminds me of the time I went to a graduation ceremony at an ultra conservative university and the university president announced to the student body “we have made sure that contraceptives will not be available anywhere on campus “. Resounding cheers.
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How pregnant was the bride? Was the “graduate” the bride or the groom?
If the graduate was not the bride, was the bride a graduate? How long had the bride managed to be sexually active without getting pregnant without the use of contraceptives from campus?