Nope. If you got degrees and are struggling with student debt you should have gotten a USEFUL degree.
And luckily what’s useful can be predicted with 100% accuracy in advance.
A system that demands a 17 year old predict the state of technology and the economy 5 years in the future at the risk of their entire future is fundamentally oppressive.
How many decades have the humanities and liberal arts degrees been not paying well? How long has college cost inflation been running over wage/regular inflation?
That kind of estimation doesn’t require any predictive ability.
While I agree with this statement, it’s not the case that this is the “only way” to get to a decision about college major.
Nor does that 17 year old have to decide on a major/career trajectory right from the get-go. But expecting them to have that “final answer” from the get-go is another form of oppression, IMO.
Although I will say that there is not nearly enough messaging that there are good blue-collar careers that don’t require a college education.
I agree with VA.
There is a shortage of skilled tradespersons in Canada despite a very good living being possible at it. However there still seems to be a stigma about making your living from using your hands rather than your brain. I am terrible “do-it-yourselfer” so admire the folks that have this expertise. However as a society we still hold up university education as the holy grail.
Still seems true in the US. It’s crazy, I pay my plumber and my electrician about $90/hr. I know they’re self employed and pay more taxes, and that also has to cover their tools, but still. In my neck of the woods, that’s a solid living.
I expect that my son will go to college and be some manner of knowledge worker, but I’ve told him there are options if he wants to do something like a skilled trade.
Your plumber might be a bit lucky. The average plumber makes like 50k.
I wonder if that has a bias similar to how actuarial salaries often do, see below, lol at $105k. I think a licensed plumber with a few years of experience makes decent money.
If your major has “Studies” in it, there’s a good chance that the word before it might as well be “Uselessness” imo.
I also think that AI is going to eliminate knowledge workers’ jobs rather than skilled tradespersons’ jobs in coming years…
The number at the link is closer to 60k. And it does look like you can do much better with more experience (and by lining in the right states)
I’d be careful about using general averages across everyone who is part of any of the apprenticeship trades (plumbing, electrician, etc.).
The “beginning level” is apprenticeship for 2 to 6 years. Your work has to be immediately supervised (that is, you need to have a certified person in your presence to do work).
Afterwards, you become a journeyman. You can work w/o supervision but your final work product needs to be reviewed by someone who is licensed if you’re not licensed.
Once you get to be a master, you can run your own business.
I think it’d be better to look at this breakdown:
“Entry Level” would be apprenticeship. Considering that an entry level teacher’s salary is about the same . . . Not a bad place to start given that you’re definitely not racking up student loan debt.
“Junior Level” looks like starting journeyman; and this would be after at least 2 years as an apprentice (minimum apprenticeship times vary by state).
“Mid-Level” seems to be a licensed journeyman plumber or a starting master plumber while “Senior Level” is a master plumber with experience and likely taking on apprentices.
“Top Level” is likely a master plumber with their own business and has a few journeyman plumbers working for them.
But I think to Cooke’s number of $90/hr: that might be what he’s being charged for the plumber to show up, not necessarily the plumber’s wages.
I’d be curious how hard it is for plumbers to become owner/managers/contractors vs (for example) people with random BAs.
Also I wonder if predicting the right blue-collar skill-set runs into the same problem as predicting the right major.
Very different. You’ll likely know within that first year of apprenticeship if it’s definitely NOT a good fit.
I don’t think it’d be any harder for a tradesman to go into business for themselves (once they’re licensed). The trick is usually finding a client base to sustain your business. And for that, it’ll be about people-skill and understanding your community–something which a degree will not help you improve.
I think that was Mathman’s number? The going rate for a Vancouver plumber is $150 to $175 per hour with a minimum 1.5 hour charge. Of course the actual plumber only pockets a fraction of that unless he/she is self-employed.
Owning your own business is the key. We are dealing with painters right now and the young man owning the company is doing quite well. He operates from home and employs no one for marketing nor accounting (good apps for that): just painters. When you do the math on what he is charging versus his wage and other costs, he must be quite successful.
I meant like, predicting a career before you start it. Like HVAC seems solid now, but who knows in 20 years?
Yeah, I mean, I’d be curious how hard that is to do. Like what % are able to do it.
I remember tutoring out of college, you could get a job for like $10/hr, or just charge like $30/hr, or $100/hr if you were established.
Anyway, yes, a degree doesn’t really help you do much. But sometimes people with degrees get randomly promoted into managerial positions. Which is one reason they are still sought after.
Finding a good tradesman that can run a business effectively is about as common as finding a good actuary that can also do tradestuff.
There is the additional problem that if they can do both, they just manage the business and hire out the work to people that may not be as good, so now you dont get the good tradesman on your project.
The best people to hire for a project are awesome tradesman that are terrible at running their business…as long as you have the patience to deal with their business side management and don’t care when it gets done. You get a great job done without the overinflated costs…just make sure you take care of them when the job is done.
Interesting topic that I think should be in its own thread.
Since I have the power . . .