What does gender dysphoria feel like? And is there a complementary feeling?

I had heard that about the gay community. It seems that under the judging gaze of men, men’s self esteem doesn’t do much better than women’s.

That makes sense about men in general. That’s a shame.

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Sure. Something that sticks in my mind is my daughter’s obsession with dresses that formed when she was 1 or 2. It is really hard for me to imagine a similar interest in my appearance at all, ever.

At all? You don’t want to look good?

I’ve had some sort of “I look fat” feelings, but that’s about it. But, for example, I’ve never looked at any clothes and thought that I would look good in those clothes.

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I went through anorexia in high school. The pressure is real for both, men just aren’t likely to talk about it because, you know we’re men and we’re supposed to be tough and confident. Never show vulnerability.

In my opinion the most at peace people are those who realize the world is bullshit and then come to terms with who they are and what they enjoy no matter what anyone thinks and they are able to build an adequate social network for their needs. Basically Maslov’s hierarchy. Unfortunately the world is so bullshit that many people are born into situations where their physical needs and safety are never there so they cannot proceed past that.

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But you are able to differentiate clothes that look good on certain bodies from bad ones right?

Like, fitted clothes would look better on an Adonis body compared to loose clothes. Certain colors look good together, etc.

so…hipsters?

stoners and trippers.

These are good questions. And I’m honestly not sure what the answer is.

Like, I think that tight clothes look good on hot-chicks? Or at least they look bad on not-hot chicks. But I’m not sure if my mind automatically translates for men. Or how it does the translation. Is it intuitive or memorized? Eh?

Likewise, I know some color theory, but I’m not sure I could relate colors to bodies.

(…This might also be getting into the “Actuaries are spectrum” territory.)

This reminds me of a time when I was ~16 and I said basically the same thing to my “popular friend” and we ran all over the mall looking for clothes that sparked my interest. I completely forgot about that day. <3

Anyway, it’s the same now. I haven’t bought clothes in years. Not to make a point, or because I like my clothes, or anything like that. Just really don’t care.

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What do fashion and drugs have to do with a fulfilling life?

So, I identify as a cis woman. But this might be a good time to mention that my kids have said they think I’m a trans man in denial. And that I suspect that if I were 20 and not (mumble mumble) I would identify as nonbinary.

But I don’t have any strong gender dysphoria. Yeah, I thought about getting breast reduction surgery for a while, because breasts are a nuisance. But I didn’t want to lose the ability to nurse babies. And after I had babies, the breasts didn’t bother me as much. Giving birth is a profoundly gender-affirming experience.

I kinda feel that body parts ARE what make me female.

Yeah, I suspect my life would have been easier had I been born into a male body. I mean, I think I would have had some issues fitting in as a guy, but I had some issues fitting in as a girl, too. I feel that it’s unknowable whether that would have been easier or harder. But it certainly wouldn’t have been a problem in every way.

One of the reasons I hang out with a lot of gay and trans friends is that I am comfortable with them. They don’t expect me to perform femininity in ways that make me uncomfortable.

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I think I get what you’re saying. Do you mean that having female parts affirms gender for you - whereas without them you’d be less inclined to think of yourself as female?

What I meant was: I don’t feel any less female without the parts. And I’m grateful for that. I was worried that I might. I’m glad I don’t - which I attribute to having a strong identity as a woman. I didn’t want to feel that way.

But if I’ve understood you, then that also makes sense. But I think we are also both kind of saying the same thing in a way. :woman_shrugging:

I’m not sure you worded this correctly. Of course life would be easier if you were born into a male body. Because life is easier as a male, period.

The thing about gender identity/sexual orientation is that trans/gay people identify with the harder paths, despite there being a seemingly easier path (to the unaware) to take.

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No, I think I really would feel less female without the parts. And that wouldn’t bother me. I don’t really feel very female, honestly.

Yes, and that’s why I identify as a straight cis women, despite not feeling terribly “female” and having some sexual interest in (some) women. Because I never felt any need to avoid the easier path.

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I’m sorry to hear about the anorexia. And with it, the masculine need to be strong (and alone i’m guessing) must have brought its own unique suffering.

I’d probably flesh out what you are saying a bit, and claim that we need a social network of people who really see us, so that they can help us be who we are. Most of us, at least, can’t fully be ourselves all by ourselves.

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Right. So you “don’t really feel very female” despite having the parts and I still feel very female despite losing the parts. So I think - in a way - we are both saying that it’s not about the parts. :woman_shrugging:

Or maybe I’m still not getting it which is entirely possible. :joy:

Had an experience today that I think fits into the general idea of gender dysphoria. I had an appointment at the Apple Store to get my phone repaired so it’s ready to give to my son when the time comes. I was wearing a simple knit dress and boots, and the employee checking people’s appointments before you entered the store complemented me on it. Now, I like this dress and I think it looks good on me usually, but for some reason the complement sent my brain on a tangent of ‘was she making fun of me?’ and had me self conscious and thinking everyone was staring at me. I couldn’t wait to get out of the store, even though everyone was really nice and helpful.

I found this a very informative read:

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I’m not trans… but sometimes I don’t feel cis.

And I’ve realized over the past year of growing my hair out (because pandemic) how I chopped off part of my personal identity when I cut my hair off when I was 20, and hoo boy a ton of regret there.