Ukrainian white priviledge

[colonelsmoothie]

I think the US census counts metro areas of 50k or more as urban which I think is a pretty low bar. I would consider some place like Amarillo or Peoria to be culturally rural even though they are technically urban.

[The_President]

I grew up in a town with ~5k, but went to a high school in a nearby city of ~50k. I think you have a bigger jump between those two than going from 50k to 500k. The town of 50k is going to have things like different grocery stores, hospitals, and just general variety of things to do and the jobs that come with it. That small town might be lucky to have 1 of anything.

[Daggett]

He couldn’t have nailed the stereotype any harder if he tried.

[3rookie]

@Mathman

I’m white. What is the minimum distance where I can feel empathy for white people but not black or brown people who are in similar situations?

You have misrepresented my post. The original and my post both pertained to feeling MORE empathy for those who look like you. It was dishonest of you to change the comparison to that of not having any empathy at all toward a certain group.

Do you feel the same level of empathy for all people all the time?

[Mathman]

Fair. How much less empathy could/should I have for black or brown people vs white people? Maybe we also need a distance axis. Let’s say at a distance of 100 miles, I have 80% less empathy for black and brown people vs white people (cet par), is that considered acceptable? 40%? 96%?

Feels like we need some kind of chart like the ‘efficient frontier’ things from Econ 101. Or maybe this is an OLS type of question. If empathy is the independent variable, what is the coefficient for distance, and what is the coefficient for race?

[magillaG]

@Chalky

sorry but that sounds like the root of racism to me

I would agree it’s the root of tribalism.

To get to modern racism, i think you probably have to add some extra intellectual structure, and maybe some economic incentives too.

I don’t think that contradicts any of what i’m saying.

Empathy is part of our social instinct. That instinct can help us recognize the moral truth that we are all equal. And unfortunately it also helps us organize into groups that can unjustly subjugate or persecute other groups far more terribly than any single person could do on their own.

@Chalky

think of the cop that emphathizes when he pulls over a white person who says he’s late, but not with a black person

I think the problem there is not so much empathy, which as an emotion is probably going to be volatile and unreliable.

The problem is that we have a system that allows the cop’s emotions to be amplified into unequal treatment of people.

[3rookie]

You should have stopped with “Fair”. Or answered my question. Instead you decided to post in bad faith.

[SredniVashtar]

I’ve lived in a bunch of places. Which is both the great benefit and the great flaw of the US. Being one giant ass country means I can move 2000 miles and not have to worry much about Medicare or SSDI or whatever.

Breaking up the country, into slices with radically different government would mean not being to pick up and relocate at the drop of a hat. Local services would need to be tied to local citizenship to prevent death spirals.

If it weren’t for the SCOTUS, we might localize our culture wars. Like no guns in NY and no gay sex in AL. But I don’t see it working for the big stuff that people in 1st world countries like. Admittedly our country seems to be mostly torn apart by culture wars, so maybe that’s all we need to do.

[Mathman]

@3rookie

Instead you decided to post in bad faith.

Nope, not bad faith. To your question: I don’t feel the same level of empathy for everyone all the time. Just practically, I don’t think I have the capacity to feel empathy for everyone at once.

@3rookie

The original and my post both pertained to feeling MORE empathy for those who look like you.

How much more empathy do you have for those who look like you? And what is acceptable?

[dr_t_non-fan]

I feel little empathy. Period. Easier life this way.

[3rookie]

@magillaG

it is very natural to feel more empathy for people who look more similar to us or to our loved ones. There is nothing wrong with that, and to the degree that this article tries to equate those feelings with racism, it is wrong.

I agree with what magillaG says above.

“How much more empathy do you have for those who look like you? And what is acceptable?”
This is a loaded question not worthy of a response. I never said that I have more or less empathy for one particular group vs. another.

[Chalky]

humans are naturally racist. It’s been stamped into our genes. It’s natural, and there’s nothing wrong with racism

[John.S.Mill]

@dr_t_non-fan

I feel little empathy. Period. Easier life this way.

Same.

I’m probably borderline sociopathic, by choice, through logic.

[Mathman]

My 23 And Me report said my grandpa was racist so I’m a quarter racist.

[Daggett]

It’s a lot more broad than that, too, though. We judge people off of all sorts of preconceived notions every single day, multiple times per day. I’m sure I can’t count the number of preconceived notions I draw conclusions based off of. We’ll always do that as long as we’re humans.

[NormalDan]

@Chalky

It’s been stamped into our genes.

I mean this is made up out of whole cloth. Kids who grow up around other kids with different races tend not to be racist. Humans are naturally suspicious of things they’re unfamiliar with, but calling that naturally racist is a stretch.

[magillaG]

I’m not sure what is meant by “naturally” racist. I think racism as we think of it is a pretty recent phenomenon.

My understanding of ancient times, for example, is that there was really no racism.

What mattered is if you were roman. It didn’t really matter which of the various ethnic groups you were. If you were roman, you had rights. Otherwise, rome tried to wipe you out or subjugate you.

I also think we have to be careful to separate different, visceral urges we have from moral judgement. Jesus may have said that all it takes to commit adultery is to have lust in your heart, but i think most of us would say it’s actions and intention that should be judged. And in addition to that, the social systems we create to be susceptible to those urges and feelings.

So if a cop is more likely to make a snapshot judgement and shoot a black person, i don’t think that mechanical action, considered all by itself, can convincingly be called racist because it doesn’t have any moral weight to it since there is no intent. Now, making the decision to not give the cop additional training to correct that habit is racist. And creating a policing system that allows that habit to be amplified into black men being more likely in reality to be shot is also racist. But it misses the moral point to focus on only that single habit, picked up through non-rational practice, and call it “racist”, which is really to call it sinful.

[SredniVashtar]

Besides race and culture, I think numbers plays a big part of our “empathy”. It’s easy to be charitable to a few, and basically impossible to be charitable to many.

[notreallyme]

@SredniVashtar

Like no guns in NY and no gay sex in AL. But I don’t see it working for the big stuff that people in 1st world countries like. Admittedly our country seems to be mostly torn apart by culture wars, so maybe that’s all we need to do.

The problem with that is:

1. People in NY care too much about the rights of gay people in AL to cut them loose
2. There’s no easy way to prevent the guns from AL from getting into NY