We don’t actually know that intersex women have a clear advantage over non-intersex women. Even the Caster Semenya rule wasn’t based on an identifiable physical advantage that intersex women had, but instead the fact that she (and a couple others) were winning 800m races. World Athletics did not ban intersex women from the 100m or 200m, nor did they ban them from 3k+ races as they were not able to identify an advantage that intersex women had, beyond the fact that 3 African women who happened to be intersex were winning 800m competitions.
1 Like
That is admittedly weird and appears to be largely because there were not any intersex athletes competing in those events at the elite women’s level at that time.
Elite athletes are rare. Intersex individuals are rare. Elite intersex athletes are extremely rare. But they do exist.
but not all the athletes are similarly disabled, yet still compete against others who might have more or less function
Hmmm, shouldn’t the % of intersex athletes be roughly the same 1-2% of elite athletes as the broader population? If you believe that being intersex is an advantage, wouldn’t we see a disproportionate number of intersex athletes on the women’s team? Seems like we definitely should be talking about more than one person in the 2024 Olympics.
In the Atlanta olympics, they gender tested all female athletes (I believe that was the last time it was done). 8 / 3,387 were intersex.
For comparison, one of the common effects of PCOS is having elevated testosterone. Frequency of PCOS is estimated to be 5-10% in the US, slightly higher worldwide (8-13%). Different studies have come up with different results, but ranges of frequency for Olympians tend to be more like 20-35%. That is, Olympians are vastly more likely to have PCOS and thus presumably elevated T levels than the average population. Why are we saying that one medical condition gives an unfair advantage, while another is ok?
1 Like
If different sports have different eligibility rules then I assume some either didn’t attempt to compete or were deemed ineligible well before arriving in Paris.
Also they face more hostility than non-intersex athletes and may be less likely to compete amidst the hostility or may choose to compete as males… especially if they are AMAB.
Or maybe a number of them aren’t masculine looking women and have these intersex advantages that you believe exist with Khelif.
I was hearing on twitter they made up ~8% of female athletes when they last did testing at the Olympics. The Olympics selects for genetic mutants like Michael Phelps.
1 Like
It’s simple. Intersex doesn’t exist, therefore we don’t need to think about it and can classify everything as male and female.
If you provide examples of intersex, it’s super rare and stupid to make all the normal people uncomfortable due to a handful of genetic freaks.
If you provide actual rates of intersex people, they go quiet and never respond.
1 Like
Meh, it’s not different than the people who scream about “only the legislatire can make law” while failing to note that common law exists.
Trump said yesterday at his rally that Imane Khalif not only transitioned, but used to compete as a male boxer. This is despite her dad producing a birth certificate and it being clear that she is not trans.
This could go in the “studies with obvious results” thread, but will put it here as it is also political:
1 Like
Sad story in the WaPo.
Just fucking awful.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2024/trans-sports-girls-florida-bans/
More universities are opting to forfeit the women’s volleyball matches with San Jose State University.
It’s very sad. My heart goes out to transgender people who want to play team sport. What do they play? Even mixed sports have a quota of how many men and women can be on the field at one time. I used to play 7-a-side mixed touch rugby and there had to be at least 3 women on at any one time. At higher levels, the transgender player will hardly get to go on the field unless they are as good as the male players.
If I’m reading the article correctly, the transgender player in question passed tests for testosterone thresholds. I’d have to refresh myself on specifics, but it’s been well-studied that after a period of a few years of HRT, transgender women don’t have a muscular advantage, retain the advantage of their height, but also retain disadvantages in some areas like flexibility. She seems to be cleared to play by the relevant organization who has guidelines on the matter.
There is no reason beyond identity politics for a governor to weigh in on a college sports spat.
So basically, their complain boils down to “she might be taller than an AFAB person”, which I don’t know if that’s even true.
She’s also been playing for 3 years with no complaints. If she had a drastically unfair advantage, someone would have noticed by now.
Strength / fitness wise, the biggest changes to the body occur in the 2nd year of hormones. It arguably makes sense to have rules requiring 2-3 years of hormones. The old IOC rule was 1 year, and it seems trans women still retain an advantage at that point. (I think Lia Thomas had 1.5 when she competed) Here is a link to an IOC that found trans women have lower strength / weight ratios than cis women, but are taller. https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/58/11/586
Speaking of height, my nieces both play intercollegiate volleyball, and the younger one is taller than average cis men. Top athletes have unusual bodies. Last year there was a high school volleyball player who had her scholarship to I think Washington revoked after it became widely known that she was trans. She had taken puberty blockers, never went through a male puberty, and was the 3rd tallest player on her club team, but the fact that she didn’t have a biological advantage didn’t matter.
1 Like
Speaking of politics though: There is a middle school in PA that has installed windows to allow the sink area of bathrooms to be visible from the hallway. But not all bathrooms, just the gender inclusive ones. It’s for “safety” yet oddly makes the students feel less safe.
1 Like
Should have a student spray them with black paint. And if it gets removed, do it again. And again.