Weird when people spend money the economy moves, what a strange concept.
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Iād point out that in some instances where this has happened in the past, especially under Dem leadership, this came at the cost of a higher federal deficit and increased national debt.
āTax the Richā isnāt quite the fix for paying for some of these important programs. What Iāve seen (sorry that I donāt have links for this) is calculations based strictly on āpast reportsā of income and they neglect that āthe Richā make decisions taking tax-implications into consideration. So if the tax rate increases, the tax base those rates are based on more than likely go down.
My guess is this is part of the issue that some from both sides are trying to address with their reluctance to ājust pass āgood legislationāā. It doesnāt help that there are enough on both sides who hold out for the āall-or-nothingā stance.
If you want to borrow a rock, Iāve got an extra one. You can go throw it at some windows and create work.
p.s. while Iām WFH, my hair still grows and I still eat lunch, not always in my kitchen.
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Is an issue created for some small segment of the population worth creating several small to really big issues for the entire worldās population? Youāre acting like they donāt have any issues if we do nothing.
Read an interesting quote from Bernie in this article. He said itās not fair for 2 people to stop what 48 people want. I might point out that actually 52 people are stopping what 48 people want Bernie.
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I think the CBO considers behavioral changes in their estimates, at least some times.
See the title and the first paragraph here. https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R41364.pdf
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The money that people donāt spend on services right around their offices doesnāt disappear. It gets spent somewhere. Maybe the barber moves out of the business district. (but, yeah, maybe WFH means fewer total haircuts)
The WFH person may not run out for lunch, but the money saved by eating at home goes somewhere. I see a problem with the dollars that would have been spent on a local businesses going to a computer manufacturer in China. But they could also go to a supper spot in a not-central location.
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Counterpoint: I do not think any level of government is responsible for the continued existence of businesses. I do not think any business should merely assume that their business will exist forever.
When more people WFH, they will be spending their excess money on other things. Like, oh, fixing things around the house (because now they actually affect them 60/60/24/7/365 instead of only at night and thereās not enough time and tired after the commute), making dinners instead of buying dinners (because less commuter time wasted), etc.
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I tend to agree, which is why I donāt think government needs to favor one over the other. Government neednāt give an incentive for WFH.
[quote=āIndy, post:127, topic:4158ā]
, but the money saved by eating at home goes somewhere.
[/quote] you know better.
How short the memories areā¦recall how folks like you were so surprised when the stimulus checks to middle class + went to pay down debt and buy assets? You know where someplace is.
The other two are beyond any reason. ONe wants his barber to get a car and commute to his local shop to help reduce congestion (say WHAT?). The other figures its just the dems fault. Whatever.
To some xtent, yes. Still, I dare say we are both in favor of property laws. I fully expect my state and local authorities to vigorously pursue action against people that rob banks, hold up liquor stores, or blow up chemical plants. They are obliged to do at least that much to help businesses exist.
And I find a world of difference between guaranteeing some businesses survive with new action versus making existing businesses at least partially whole when they take action that clearly and directly hurt them.
Itās hard to believe people n this board donāt remember the pandemic. The one where unemploy,ent spiked up, GDP fell, and it was caused by the lack of in person, face to face commerce. Who knew that so many actuaries worked at Amazon?
Nope, I donāt. Maybe you can dig up one of my posts?
I donāt recall posting that either. The barber working downtown probably isnāt living there, and heās probably renting his shop. Maybe weāre imagining completely different cities. Where I live, lots of office employment is on the interstate ring. Offices are surrounded by parking lots. People donāt walk to barbershops. Iāve got a relative who would be traveling 30 minutes on highways to get from one suburb to another for work, but she doesnāt go into he office. If there are any services she would have used around her office, she now uses similar services close to home. So I donāt know where barbers working in Manhattan live.
And, yes, I think if there are people who were accustomed to eating in restaurants at work, and now they are saving money by cooking for themselves at home, eating supper out will become more appealing (assuming restaurants can find staff after covid).
[quote=āEimonGnome, post:130, topic:4158ā]
The other figures its just the dems fault
[/quote]I donāt recall posting that either.
Here ya go. Itās from earlier in this thread. The premise of that quote is most definitely, āit gets spentā. Albeit recent history belies that premise. So I apologize for intimating you were surprised. You were in fact, unaware. My bad.
And I appreciate the ābuildings in my area are around the interstate ring.ā Been there, done that. Iād venture any WFH allowance for them is counter productive. With virtually no mass transit, or pedestrian alternatives, those buildings are in sad shape withou cars. Sux to be the owner. Iād expect them to go to seed. Hold the current tenants to th existing lease terms and fold up shop.
And donāt get me wrong. I also believe the era of. āEveryone get a car and drive every whereā is coming to a close.I just donāt get a WFH tax credit for employers. Why subsidize owners of firms for something they never āownedā in the first place and will happen in any case? Just let it wither and die, let the private sector work out the details.
Einom, itās a bit awkward having this conversation, because I think most people here would agree with you that white-collar tax-breaks are not money well-spent. Even if we disagree with what happens to the barber.
But this is a good question, particularly in the world of global warming. Is there some real benefit to face-to-face commerce or whatever that we missed? And is the economy really better or greener or something now? Did we win something or lose something from WFH?
Btw, NY is working on congestion pricing.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/29/nyregion/nyc-congestion-pricing.html
I assume they want a scheme similar to London? Which charges $15/day for driving downtown? Which I think makes simple sense, both for congestion and the environment.
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Correction: Interstate 75 and Interstate 71.
There are two major North-South interstate highways that cross the Ohio River in Cincinnati, 8 automobile bridges in the area that cross the Ohio and someone decided it would be brilliant to have both interstate highways use the same bridge.
But yeah, the Brent Spence needed work before there was a car fire on it that further weakened it. My understanding is that construction is already underway thoughā¦ certainly a lot of griping about traffic from Facebook friends. But I have not done any sort of due diligence to see what they are actually fixing compared to what is needed.
What is really needed is to split 71 & 75 so that they each have their own bridges. I doubt thatās in the works.
Though nothing could possibly be worse than the dearth of bridges crossing the Columbia River in the Portland area. (OK, ānothing could be worseā is hyperbole, but the lack of bridges in PDX is severe.)
I guess since Medicare is here to stay it makes sense to include hearing and vision and dental. I doubt those are major cost-drivers anyway.
I can maybe see lowering the age to the earliest Social Security retirement ageā¦ currently 62. I can see that making a significant difference on Obamacare premiums. The cost will be huge though. Are there taxes in the bill to pay for it?
Iām opposed to dropping the Medicare age all the way to 60 though.
Thatās against my personal best interest though. My highest earning days are most likely behind me and dropping the Medicare age to 60 will make it cheaper for me to / hasten the day when I can retire altogether. I donāt think thatās something I should be asking taxpayers to fund though.
Sorry I got confused. l don not like a wfh credit either. I was just thinking about wfh adjustments
Sure but on average I think people are spending less on meals out, makeup, and razors than before the pandemic massively increased WFH. Not sure about haircutsā¦ maybe a little less. (A lot less when salons/barbershops were closed of course.)
Or maybe a barber who lives in the suburbs and had been commuting into the city will be the one to decide to move his business to the burbs and further reduce congestion.