Stocks: what goes up must go up exponentially and never come down

So I’m right there with you, my stash hit $1.8M last week, and my home equity is about the same as yours, but I still have a few years left on the mortgage. See the home improvement thread, lighting cash on fire to get our old house in shape is slowing me down.

Once the porch is done we won’t have any more $$$ projects and I’ll be saving $90k or $100k per year. I think I’ll keep plugging away until I have about $2.5M plus a paid for house.

Big question is if and when my company IPOs and at what valuation. Could be zero. If we IPO at our current valuation I’ll be retiring the day after it happens.

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I would probably be a bit careful with that one.

One Canadian friend of mine retired right after Shopify did its IPO (made millions of $$$ on paper as he worked for them), but then the stock price crashed by 75% in 1Y.

It’s recovered a bit but he’s back working now. :frowning:

I’ll be hedging with options until I can cash out.

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I’ve worked at a place where trading company options was prohibited. Of course if you retire I don’t think they could do anything about it.

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Insuring the value of your locked up assets should not be viewed as “trading”. As an employee you are presumed to have some level of inside information so understand limitations against moving in and out of company stock or options positions.

Very much this. You’ll have to make sure defensive options are permitted.

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It was nakedly obvious when done

To anybody not at least cult-curious

Stocks go up


got lucky, bought $10,000 one week ago @ $3.30, it’s up to $25,000.

ETA an hour and a half later it’s down to $7.38

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From $3.30 to $25,000 to $7.38 is REALLY volatile! :flushed_face:

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I knew I should have sold at $25,000 but I was hoping it would go to $26,000.

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I sold a portion at $7.87 and the remainder at $7.30, let’s watch it go back up now.
Will probably jump back in sooner or later.

Back up to $7.47 five minutes later.

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NASDAQ 20k

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This could go in many areas: Professional, Investments, General,…Parking it here for now, but it might warrant it’s own thread.

Strange bedfellows Hawley and Elizabeth Warren are going after health insurers with vertically integrated PBMs and pharmacies

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/lawmakers-eye-bill-forcing-drug-145619369.html

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Jump on board the quantum computing roller coaster!

ETA: It’s up to 16.56 the following morning.

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https://www.wsj.com/finance/stocks/why-this-frothy-market-has-me-scared-295c07c3

My snide comment: If it were a real bubble, no one would be talking about how we’re in a bubble…therefore, we can’t be in a bubble.

Why This Frothy Market Has Me Scared

When investors are wildly optimistic, it is much harder for the market to rise and much easier for it to fall on any hint that they might be wrong

James Mackintosh

By

James Mackintosh

Dec. 17, 2024 5:30 am ET

THE ONE GROUP NOT BUYING INTO THE STORY ABOUT STOCKS ARE CORPORATE EXECUTIVES.

The market feels toppy. There is no science to this and readers will have to judge for themselves. But here are a bunch of things that make me think trouble might be imminent for stocks—perhaps a correction, perhaps the start of something bigger, but at least a bump in the road.

Bulls are everywhere. Bears are hard to find. This shows up in sentiment, in surveys and in the capitulation of the permabears.

Sentiment is euphoric, according to Citigroup’s Levkovich indicator. This index combines lots of measures and suggests investors have only been more positive twice, in the postpandemic SPAC/cannabis/green bubble and in the dot-com bubble of 1999-2000.

When investors are wildly optimistic, it is much harder for the market to rise—everyone’s already got a lot of stocks—and much easier for it to fall on any hint that they might be wrong. I don’t know what the trigger might be, but it doesn’t need to be much.

Other signs of optimism. Investment newsletter writers have rarely been more bullish or less bearish, according to the weekly survey by Investors Intelligence. Households have never been so confident that stocks will rise over the next year, according to the Conference Board’s monthly survey.

And fund managers shifted after the election to be more overweight U.S. stocks than any time since 2013, pretty much as all-in on the U.S. as they have ever been, according to Bank of America’s survey. Money is pouring into funds at an exceptionally high rate too, close to new highs.

Some of the best-known bears have given up. Economist and fund manager Nouriel Roubini used to revel in the moniker of “Dr. Doom,” but he told Bloomberg TV “I’m not Dr. Doom, I’m Dr. Realist,” while talking up the prospects for the U.S. economy. David Rosenberg of Rosenberg Research didn’t actually say the fateful words “this time is different” but he did write that “traditional valuations, at the least, are not that helpful right now.”

This time will be different. Rosenberg thinks investors have shifted away from the standard metric of price against one-year forward earnings to look further out, because of the prospects for an AI-driven productivity boom. Even those who think markets will eventually return to something like normal, such as Goldman Sachs, don’t expect issues soon.

Almost everyone agrees AI and the U.S. economy are great. Wei Li, chief investment strategist of the BlackRock Investment Institute, says spending on artificial intelligence will be “of a magnitude similar to previous industrial revolutions, but happening so much faster.” She argues that “U.S. exceptionalism has been years in the making.”

The widespread agreement shows up in prices. The biggest AI-linked stocks dominated the market this year, while the U.S. market outperformed the rest of the world by almost 22 percentage points in the year to the end of November, the most over an 11-month period since 1998.

No one cares about valuation. It isn’t just that people think AI and the U.S. will do well. They don’t seem to care about the price, even though price is the starting point for future returns. Cheap, or value, stocks have been underperforming for years, but just had their longest-ever consecutive daily decline, falling every day for the past 11 days. These are almost by definition bad companies, but the disconnect from the excitement about growth stocks is extreme.

The same goes for stocks against bonds, with the earnings yield—the inverse of the PE ratio—barely above the 10-year Treasury yield, the lowest reward on this measure for the risk of holding stocks since the aftermath of the dot-com bubble. It isn’t just that people want to buy good companies, they seem to want them at any price.

Inside trades. The one group not buying into the story are corporate executives, who ought to be best-placed to see the potential for a new golden era for American profits. They have been selling more stock than they buy, according to regulatory filings, suggesting they think prices are too high.

None of these points are proof that the market must fall, let alone that it will happen soon. None have a perfect record and on some measures—such as the American Association of Individual Investors’s survey—things aren’t so extreme. But I don’t want to be part of a crowd buying into a narrow story when prices, valuations and hope are already extremely high, and insiders aren’t willing to back it with their money.

This feels like a good time to take some money off the table

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Bought another 50 shares of BND, one more small step towards a slightly less aggressive portfolio.

My attitude is more like, “Bearish, but I realize that I’m not smarter than people who do this for a living. Pulling out of the market, on average, is a stupid decision.”

I don’t have great hopes for the future Trump-era economy given his actions before even stepping into office. That said, I’m not confident enough to pull my money out of the market and try to time a dip. We might see 3 years of deregulation stimulating growth before I jump back in to hit a crash.

Same. I was 100% index funds for years, S&P and some Russell type funds. I’ve never sold any, but I did begin buying BND a few years ago, trying to ramp up to like 20% invested in relatively stable assets.

I mean, I’ve felt like the market has been a little overheated for like four or five years, but if I’d cashed out back then I’d have lost that bet.

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Exactly. 2013-2018ish was an amazing run. In 2018 I was beginning to feel like the market was overheated and bad things were on the horizon. Which they were… around 2021.

I could have sold and bought a few times in between to have made more profit. I also could have bought a ton of TSLA and NVDA.

But I just buy and hold.

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