That would be assuming that the distribution is symmetrical. My understanding is that the lower class is a lot bigger than the upper class.
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Man, I really miss the red font
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I think most actuaries are upper class. This doesn’t really align with our perception, as most of us make solid investment decisions and live relatively frugally. But most of us will be able to retire with confidence, and don’t need to set a strict budget to live within our means.
I do think the class with the least means has expanded over the last few decades, but I don’t think the middle class encompasses 80%+, either.
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2022 average annual wages
Percent group Wages
Top 0.1% $1,000,000+
Top 1% $350,000+
Top 5% $170,000 to $174,999
Top 10% $120,000 to $124,999
Top 15% $95,000 to $99,999
Top 20% $80,000 to $84,999
Top 50% $40,000 to $44,999
I think your definition might be skewed based on your profession. We all have our biases, recognizing them is important. I think a lot of folks who say they are middle class are well into the upper middle class range.
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The problem with assessing the statement “most actuaries are upper class” is that I’m not certain there’s a good definition of “upper class”.
The USA Today article does include one person’s opinion:
The “primary source of income that consists of capital gains…” criterion seems reasonable to me, at least for adults who haven’t reached “retirement age”, or if viewed over adulthood.
In the US, I think there may be some actuaries who qualify as “upper class” by that definition, but more of us are likely merely “upper middle class” by the time we attain “seasoned actuary” status.
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It brings up the ever popular wealth v income discussion.
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I think ‘upper class’ is a subjective term that is mostly used as a proxy for indicating social status. It can be a positive or a negative depending on the context. Twig’s definition implies that a lot of rich folks want to downplay their wealth so the masses don’t bring out the pitchforks. Whereas a less well-off person might think of themselves as upper-class to feel superior to their peers.
My definition would be less about annual income and more about the ability to live your life free from monetary constraints. That’s where the investments come into play. If you can quit your job and live comfortably for the rest of your life I’d call you upper class, regardless of income.
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I would say that “middle” is the middle quintile. Upper middle is the quintile above, and lower middle is the quintile below.
If we want to expand “middle”, maybe use bands of 15 - 20 - 30 - 20 -15 instead.
According to the IRS data, 40% of married couple households were below $75,000, 45% were above $100,000, and 15% in the $75,000 - $100,000 band.
2.8% made over $500,000. So you’re saying that people can make 6x the median and still be “upper middle class”.
Note that is for 2020, and it ignores any couples who don’t file income tax returns. Table 1.2 at https://www.irs.gov/statistics/soi-tax-stats-individual-statistical-tables-by-size-of-adjusted-gross-income
living like a a cheap actuary stereotype does not lower the class rating. we are all well off. not FU rich well off (like, is paying for college for a kid a stress still - yes) but realistically we are upper middle or higher.
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My living standard (safe neighborhood, paying off parent-of-student loans), relative to my income, keeps me at about middle-class.
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Agreed. $125,000 income with a crap ton of debt and no assets is radically different from $125,000 income with no debt and you own your home & cars outright, your kids’ college savings are sufficient to pay for whatever college they have remaining, and enough money saved for retirement that you can say FU to your boss any time you feel like.
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If you say so.
Sure doesn’t feel that way, though.
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Are there many things you want that you can’t afford?
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Yeah, I reject the notion that we split income into quintiles or quartiles or deciles … income levels don’t follow anything like the uniform distribution.
The difference between 90th & 99th percentiles is so much greater than the difference between the 75th & 90th percentiles. 10 percenters have a lot more in common with 25 percenters than they do with 1 percenters. 
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It will depend a bit on what you do with the difference going from 90 to 99… could either be upgrading house/ cars/ vacation, or simply sitting on the income to do whatever you want, when you want. I guess either way its a noteworthy change, but one of those is much less apparent to others than the other.
So one ratio is 1.6 and the next ratio is 2.7 and that is soo much different.
How about the ratio between 90 and 99.9? Suppose it’s 3.9, does that mean the 99th percentile is “upper middle”? And, then do 99.99 vs 99.90, same thing. The bottom rung of the Forbes 400 is $2.9 billion. Just think about those poor people who only have $500 million, I’ll bet there are thousands of Americans above them, and maybe 10,000? worldwide, certainly they don’t think they are “rich”.
This is the “looking up fallacy”. In the US, we can always look up the financial ladder and see someone who is far above us and decide we a “merely middle class”.
We have TV programs about the lifestyles of the rich and famous, but none about the lifestyles of the poor and invisible. People are much more likely to look up and say there are so many people above them, rather than look down and see how many more are below.
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I do find it hilarious and very telling that a tangent that start with the thought “we need to pay SCOTUS justices more so that they are not susceptible to bribery” pretty much proved that is impossible.
Certain people, no matter how much they are paid, always think that they need more. They always see someone with more and don’t notice those with less.
Unethical people, like Thomas, will take a bribe to get more no matter how much they are paid. Does anyone actually think his behavior would be any different if he made $500k a year? $1m a year? The only difference would be that the size of gifts he receives to influence his decisions would be even larger. We would be talking about private jets or yachts instead of RVs.
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Striving to determine salary cutoff points seems odd to me, as I was under the impress (or, really, I was taught) that class wasn’t strictly a matter of income/wealth. As an example, I grew up in a neighborhood where most families had fairly good income, but worked as “laborers” in jobs not requiring a higher education and had a fairly low “social standing”. So despite the fair income, the neighborhood would be described as “upper lower class” rather than “middle class”.
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Some laboring jobs may have a lower lifetime earnings potential if the work is really hard to do once you reach 50. Not all of them will end up as supervisors.