Shame the AO is gone. Some of the history that was in its archives about past initiatives proposed by the SOA…
Will YouTube links suffice?
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I think the SOA has a documented history of making unwise decisions in the pursuit of its leadership’s visions.
I doubt (or at least hope that it isn’t the case) that there is a conscious effort to hide behind the promotion of diversity as a reason for the change. But past acts by the SOA would have me a bit cynical when it comes to the possibility that there could be a (perhaps subconscious) effort to point at diversity as a way to rationalize putting forward a long-term pet goal.
An outside observer would note that some folks in the CAS have a history of skepticism towards acts taken by the SOA. Objectively, I will admit that knowledge of the past could influence my interpretation. But on the other hand, I have been more favorably-inclined towards the SOA than some of my peers.
Some folks in the SOA have wanted to give credit for university coursework for years. I’m not going to pretend to know exactly why. There has been resistance from American members in the past.
Given the track record of some leadership folks in the SOA of pursuing (occasionally bad) ideas despite a lack of consensus, or even open opposition, from its membership, it’s not unreasonable to be cynical about the diversity argument. At a minimum, it’s worth asking for clarification of the reasoning. I could, after all, be wrong.
Now, it should be noted that back in the olden days, I was critical about the societies’ system of self-study exams. I think the SOA has done some good things to improve the situation, and I’m not opposed to the idea of replacing the exams or providing a class-based alternative path to the exams IF the profession maintains control of the syllabus and grading standards, and this alternative path is available regardless of other school affiliations and/or for folks looking to enter the profession from other careers.
But mine is a minority view…and I don’t think that’s what’s being proposed.
(I really wish we had AO archives to pull up examples of past SOA antics from.)
Man, how quickly everyone forgets!
:pdftt: was the emoticon of the guy holding the sign saying “Please Don’t Feed The Troll”
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Well, Canada went ahead and did their own thing, if that’s what you’re talking about (I forget the timing on that one)
https://www.cia-ica.ca/membership/university-accreditation-program-home/accredited-universities
current list:
| View | Concordia University |
|---|---|
| View | Simon Fraser University |
| View | Université de Montréal |
| View | Université du Québec à Montréal (UQAM) |
| View | Université Laval |
| View | Université Laval Graduate Program |
| View | University of Calgary |
| View | University of Manitoba |
| View | University of Regina |
| View | University of Toronto |
| View | University of Waterloo Graduate Program |
| View | University of Waterloo Undergraduate Program |
| View | University of Western Ontario |
disclosure: I have a Manitoba sweatshirt, which I got from the SOA promoting CAEs at an annual meeting one year. It’s a really nice sweatshirt.
apropos of nothing, let’s take a look at membership numbers:
https://www.soa.org/about/members-by-country/
Sorry, I don’t remember what happened in 2018 that led to a large bump-up in ASAs (14% increase from 2017 to 2018). I assume some exam change lit a fire under people’s butts.
I see that Canadian membership has fallen off since 2018 - it’s only a 2% decrease from 2018 to 2020, and it’s all driven by the drop-off in ASAs, while FSAs continues to slowly grow.
Before 2020, FSAs grew in number about 3% per year. Growth a little slower in Canada, and faster in non-US/Canada countries.
Thanks. Yeah, ex-boss’ school is on the list. But ex-boss would’ve gone through before they had the credits, I think. (That was a 21st century change, right?)
I do, and your suspicion is right. I don’t recall the precise deadlines but it was in that era that people had to complete their ASA before being subjected to the Predictive Analytics exam. PA didn’t replace anything. There was no way to get conversion credit. It was just an extra hurdle they added to the path.
And then I think they had an additional 3 years to complete FSA before being subjected to it. So we might see a bump in FSAs this year if my memory is accurate.
I supervised students in 2018 so I was more attuned to what was going on then than now. Not currently supervising students anymore so it’s less on my radar.
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Did it originally start with both the SOA and CIA and then end up just CIA?
I remember 2009. That was when Mercer put their foot down and said “no”. I think they threatened to start a competing organization and stop paying dues to the SOA.
But then it came up again, I thought, a few years later. I mean maybe it was 2014 or 2018 not 2016… I don’t recall precisely.
But I do recall that Bruce pointed out that Mercer had new management and might not be so forceful with the then-newest iteration.
There was a March 30 deadline in 2018 to finish FAP and something like july 1 deadline to finish ASA or be subject to the new PA requirement. I would think the increase also was in 2017 over 2016 due to this reason too. Might even be more of an increase in 2017 over 2016. This was the reason I finally got motivated to finish ASA in 2018.
I think the deadline for fsa to be subject to PA was extended due to covid. Not sure when it is.
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Interesting. I’m guessing it won’t be as sharp an uptick even without the extension because probably a lot of the ASA procrastinators were (by that point) planning on being career ASAs or figured there was no way they’d finish FSA in time.
Someone who barely made the ASA cutoff would have to hustle to make the original FSA cutoff. Definitely doable, but not for someone who was taking their sweet time.
Yeah I was an asa procrastinator who had no intention on getting fsa. If I was younger and in insurance, maybe. The ASA deadline did also motivate me to finally get EA too, but not fsa. No deadline for EA. I just got motivated
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I’d be surprised if I’m typical, but with the massive uptick of ASA’s in 2018 and probably 2017 I’m not so sure.
I know several ASA procrastinators (loosely defined as meeting all requirements but FAP and then sitting on FAP for a really long time)… some of whom stepped up in 2017/2018 and some did not.
I don’t think you’re so unusual. But I did think of you when I was responding to MPC about the 2018 phenomenon being driven by ASA procrastinators stepping it up to avoid the PA exam.
So… maybe not typical but also not unusual.
ah, yeah, it was just FAP holding me up. stupid hold-up too since I breezed through FAP once I put my mind to it.
I finished all the ASA exams years before I got ASA, so I was an ASA procrastinator too.
I did get divorced and move in the middle of all that, and work got crazy and my boss made it so I wasn’t required to meet my employer’s proscribed timetable for exam progress.
But a lot of it was simply not having a deadline pushing me to completion. It was the money that finally got me moving. I bought my post-divorce home assuming I’d be making ASA money imminently. And then I didn’t and was house-poor and then had to shell out $5,000 for a new roof. So I needed the money and finished up and finally got the money.
I’m confused. What did you have left that you were procrastinating on? APC? APC was awesome. I don’t know why anyone would procrastinate on that. I got a cool trip to Boston. I mean, now it sucks with it being online, but it was fun then.
Modules 6-8 and the final assessment.
I finished Modules 1-5 quickly because at that point there was an exam. The Interim Assessment didn’t yet exist.
But then I sat on Modules 6-8 and FA for years.