Put the Atheist back in Christmas

The short simplified version (told by somebody who’s not really an expert) is this: under paganism, nature had an independence to it. A particular tree or grove, for example, might have its own spirits, and the correct local rituals were required to make it happy. I read the germanic tribes used to “cheer on” the moon during a lunar eclipses, helping it to get out of the earth’s shadow.

this was reflected in (greek and roman) pagan philosophy too. they had a lot of trouble explaining how the unity of the perfect, introspective (impersonal) One God could result in a diverse physical world. So there had to be many different mediators between the world and the One. These “demonic” mediators were everywhere, and not necessarily bad.

Under Christianity, everything had to give way for the majesty of God. How God in his perfection was able to create our world was a matter of faith, to be understood through wisdom rather than knowledge.

There was no more room for the demonic mediators. They became demons in the sense we use the world. And since creation was good, they must be separate from nature. So the church went about banishing the pagan rituals. The moon became an object obeying the will of God. Cheering it on did nothing.

Eventually, nature became so beholden to the will of God that it came to be seen as following eternal laws given by God. Only human beings had real freedom. After about 1000 years or so, this lead to the mechanical worldview often attributed to Newton, but that really should be called Laplacian.

Everyone should wear costumes!

Nature certainly is more exciting than God

x

i would say, not really.

most versions of christianity do include the idea of supernatural causes.

but “magic” tends to mean something different, namely, i think, the ability to influence the outcome of events through the correct rituals and favors. this doesn’t really get at the flavor of what christian prayer is supposed to be.

some people definitely practice christianity that way.

but i also see people do things like wave crystals over themselves to heal faster, or wear magnetic bracelets to do i-don’t-know-what. they have a secular explanation, which is pseudoscientific, but i don’t think it illuminates much to call it magic and attribute it to belief in science.

But . . . but . . . in which direction does the sun rise?

note that this works far better spoken than typed out

and for the record, that statement is made tongue-in-cheek

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Easter is a christian holiday? I thought it’s about colorful eggs

Ah. Lure kids in with gifts and lies, then spring the cult on them after they’ve bought in? Cool.

jk, tbw

don’t think the word “cult” makes sense. cult to me means small group. cults aren’t even necessarily bad.

let’s be real, the christian version of Christmas was never going to interest anyone, let alone kids

Great I just don’t think religious people arguing with atheists is helpful. Most of the talk is talking past each other and is generally in a hateful and demeaning tone. That’s not helpful.

Now if you want to argue about sports or the best movies or something like that let’s go for it.

Im not entirely sure what this argument is about. I don’t know of anyone who is telling atheists they can’t celebrate Christmas

Some people go to baseball games to watch the game and mark stats. Some people go to socialize and drink beer.

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If anything, they’re telling atheists that they should celebrate Christmas.

as long as it’s about the red fat man and not a dead 2000 yo man.

Let’s cut down a tree to celebrate Christ’s Mass!

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imo, Christmas is already the perfect Atheist holiday because it blends Jesus Christ, Santa Clause, Elves, and Trees.

Nothing is more atheist than loosely fudging together traditions and calling them all “magical”.

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we love fairy tales!

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I imagine a lot of atheists celebrate in the same way. Nothing atheist about it either.

Do you know why we give gifts on Christmas?

Also, see MPC’s post about the tree.

Christianity certainly doesn’t have or claim exclusivity on the concept of a big meal with family on a holiday: that’s pretty standard for any holiday in any religion, but it doesn’t take away from the religious nature of the holiday.