Israel - Hamas War October 2023

Well, I can pretty much guarantee you that Israel will be found guilty of war crimes now.

Trying to justify over 15:1 ratios for civilian casualties when targeting suspected hamas sympathasizers is simply never going to fly with the court.

I think its time for the EU, US, and Canda to heavily sanction Israel in the face of this kind of large-scale barbarism.

And lets not sugar-coat this: this is genocide masquerading as “self-defense”.

And this too.

Funny how you’re willing to believe anything negative about Israel in print.

Well, actually, it’s not funny.

Apparently there are nutters in the US government too. Who knew?

Israel has made its bed. Not even the US behaved in such a barbaric way after 9/11.

I have zero sympathy for them.

This is the result of their behavior over the last 6 months.

Zero trust.

‘No trust’ in Israeli probe into killings of Gaza food charity workers, says aid chief - ‘No trust’ in Israeli probe into killings of Gaza food charity workers, says aid chief via @FT

You say it’s the result of their behavior, but you never answered my question. What has Israel ever done that you approve of?

Oh, so the US is the second most evil country in your view of the world?

The US has plenty of “problems”.

But their military and Government still tend to respect international law.

Israel does not. Which is precisely why they are losing international support and are now being marginalised because the international community is fed up with their behavior.

They have also done this to themselves, as there were other options.

So no, they still get zero sympathy from me.

Its also starting to emerge that the aid workers were targeted on purpose by commanders on the ground.

This has caused IMMENSE anger in the the countries the aid workers came from.

Israel is simply not going to get any more diplomatic “cover” from any of these countries going forward as their behavior has made it politically toxic to do so.

The reason insiders are talking to reporters now is because they are worried that Israel’s behavior is a strategic blunder, and is making them less safe.

They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.

I dunno, they seem to be pretty sophisticated to me.

And one news article i read says that the guy who founded WCK is personally chummy with Biden. That might make a difference to the US reaction.

I mean, there was a missile hole in the center of the WCK logo painted on top of the vehicle. Those are smart missiles that are aimed precisely. It’s clear that someone targeted aid workers.

It’s not clear to me that Israel, as an entity, gives a shit about that.

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Discussed by @The_Polymath just above.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/chef-jose-andres-says-israel-targeted-his-aid-workers-systematically-car-by-car-2024-04-03/

Asked for comment on Andres’ remarks, an Israeli military spokesperson referred to prior comments by chief of staff Herzi Halevi in which he called the incident a grave mistake and said the attack "was not carried out with the intention of harming WCK aid workers.

Speaking via video, Andres said the World Central Kitchen (WCK) charity group he founded had clear communication with the Israeli military, which he said knew his aid workers’ movements. “This was not just a bad luck situation where ‘oops’ we dropped the bomb in the wrong place,” Andres said. “This was over a 1.5, 1.8 kilometers, with a very defined humanitarian convoy that had signs in the top, in the roof, a very colorful logo that we are obviously very proud of,” he said. It’s “very clear who we are and what we do.”

He said that after the IDF attacked the first armored car, the team was able to escape and move to a second car which was then attacked, forcing them to move to the third car. The aid workers tried to communicate to make clear who they were, he said, adding IDF knew they were in the area which it controlled.Then the third car was hit, “and we saw the consequences of that.”

“Even if we were not in coordination with the (Israel Defense Forces), no democratic country and no military can be targeting civilians and humanitarians,” he added.

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Seems like he’s saying that Iran and Russia and probably North Korea and China are assisting Hamas. So helping Israel win is helping to defeat those countries as we as Hamas.

We know Iran is helping Hamas. Russia and China wouldn’t surprise me. North Korea would surprise me a little just because I didn’t think they had enough money to support anyone else. But maybe that’s naive thinking on my part or maybe he just made that up.

That sequence of events actually explains the multiple strikes. The drone operators were tracking the people from one vehicle to another. It doesn’t excuse the misidentification. But if they never double checked on that, which is MASSIVELY common in friendly fire incidents, then this sequence makes sense of the multiple hits on the convoy.

The US lost 5 M1s and 5 Bradley in a single friendly fire incident during desert storm. That was not as complicated an environment as Gaza is now. This incident may be partially due to lack of controls, but it is certainly not intentional. The IDF isn’t stupid enough intentionally kill aid workers knowing what kind of trouble that would cause.

AP News Desert Storm Friendly Fire

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Unless they are count on the explanation in this post as cover.

I certainly hope it wasn’t intentional. It’s awful either way, of course, as was the U.S. friendly fire incident you referenced.

If it was intentional then that’s obviously a war crime for which the responsible parties should pay.

Weird use of “intentional”.
The drone operator identified the target. The target was a convoy. They intended to blow up the car. The car got destroyed.

What is the point of saying they didn’t intend to do it? They obviously did intend to destroy the car. It was the clear objective. Now, I can go with it’s a mistake, or it wasn’t malicious…but saying it’s an accident, likening it to a tree falling in a hurricane, is pretty wacky.

Until BOTH SIDES can admit they did wrong, we aren’t getting anywhere near peace.

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Unless they really want to starve the citizens of Gaza, and know that’s a way to remove some of the more effective food delivery.

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Its not a weird use at all. The misidentification was certainly accidental. Perhaps made more likely by inadequate procedures, or procedures not followed, but certainly accidental. Everything else flows from ID’ing the people in those vehicles as legitimate targets.

Very reasonably could be “if you ran this up the chain of command, they’d officially say don’t fire on the humanitarian workers, but if you just make the decision locally in the moment… Well, don’t do it again.”

We’ll likely never know. It’s reasonable that not every IDF soldier wants to harm Gazans in general, and also reasonable that some of them want exactly that.

Similar to how video came out of US helicopter gunners knowingly gunning down innocent Iraqi civilians and laughing about it, but generally I wouldn’t say that US soldiers wanted to gun down innocents. Nonetheless, some of them did.

Edit: In neither case do I absolve the greater organization of responsibility. The US went into Iraq on false pretenses and murdered many innocents.

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