# Have we rounded the corner for the final time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Covid19\ **Created:** [January 25, 2021, 4:37pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872 "2021-01-25T16:37:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![dothemath](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/dothemath/32/651_2.png) [@dothemath](https://community.goactuary.com/u/dothemath)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 3:45am UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/522 "2021-07-29T03:45:43Z")
At this point, no restrictions have been reimposed in the US, AFAIK. Just recommendations. Actually, nm, CA has reimposed mask mandates. I’m 99% sure ---
**Author:** ![Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/marcie/32/8789_2.png) [@Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Marcie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 4:19am UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/523 "2021-07-29T04:19:57Z")
Actually, relaxing restrictions doesn’t always lead to higher case rates if 1. other forces (e.g. seasonality, vaccinations) are stronger; and/or 2. the restriction was pointless to begin with > ---
**Author:** ![SteveGrondin](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/stevegrondin/32/3257_2.png) [@SteveGrondin](https://community.goactuary.com/u/SteveGrondin)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 12:19pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/524 "2021-07-29T12:19:30Z")
It is hard to argue that the restrictions were pointless. Observational evidence in this kind of large and varied environment is not as clear as “experimental” evidence from tightly monitored and rigorously constructed scientific experiments. The changing prevalence of the delta variant and vaccination are confounding variables. One might note Texas’ resurgence in 7 day new case average to say reintroducing measures, even those of debated efficacy, would be a prudent step. ---
**Author:** ![The\_President](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/the_president/32/70075_2.png) [@The\_President](https://community.goactuary.com/u/The_President)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:25pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/525 "2021-07-29T13:25:59Z")
I thought Biden’s response at the time was off - it was time to reopen, and the CDC shortly after that agreed. That was before Delta arrived. Annoyingly now, the people who did their part will be putting back on masks AGAIN to make up for the selfishness of those who skipped the vaccine and continue to follow the death cult. The CDC doesn’t care about individual choices, they provide guidance for the general public. ---
**Author:** ![Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/marcie/32/8789_2.png) [@Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Marcie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 1:54pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/526 "2021-07-29T13:54:22Z")
> [@SteveGrondin](#): > > “experimental” evidence from tightly monitored and rigorously constructed scientific experiments. You got anything like this to support cloth face coverings in public? Because I have dozens that say they do nothing to stop airborne aerosol pathogens, which is why they were never in the pandemic playbook prior to 2020 (when the science still hasn’t changed). ---
**Author:** ![Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/snikelfritz/32/5728_2.png) [@Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Snikelfritz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/527 "2021-07-29T14:04:35Z")
> **[404 - Emerging Infectious Diseases journal](https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/404.html?aspxerrorpath=%2Feid%2Farticle%2F26%2F10%2F20-0948_article)** …all masks tested showed some ability to block the microbial aerosol challenges although less than that of medical masks… …in an infection control guideline developed in 1998, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization (WHO) recommended using cotton masks to protect from viral hemorrhagic fevers in low-resource healthcare settings in Africa if respirators or medical masks were not available (14). Similarly, WHO also discussed the option of using cloth masks to protect wearers from acquiring infection during the 2009 influenza A(H1N1) pandemic (15)… ---
**Author:** ![T-roy](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/t-roy/32/9180_2.png) [@T-roy](https://community.goactuary.com/u/T-roy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:05pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/528 "2021-07-29T14:05:22Z")
My employer (hospital system in multiple states) is going 99.9% vax or terminated. Religion and medical issues are the exception. ---
**Author:** ![Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/marcie/32/8789_2.png) [@Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Marcie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:07pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/529 "2021-07-29T14:07:33Z")
> [@The\_President](#): > > the CDC shortly after that agreed Do you have a link to this? Because I found this from March 5, days after Texas & Mississippi announced their mask mandates ending (2 days after Biden called it “Neanderthal thinking”): [https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/05/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/05/coronavirus-covid-live-updates-us/) ![Screenshot_20210729-090002](https://community.goactuary.com/uploads/default/original/2X/5/59f448e07b3e87d5f2157b46d7c02648da6f1096.jpeg) It wasn’t until end of April that the CDC said it was safe to go maskless _outdoors_ and mid-May when they relaxed their guidance for indoors for those vaccinated. So I don’t really see any evidence that the CDC ever agreed with Texas removing its mask mandate. ---
**Author:** ![ao\_fan](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/ao_fan/32/143_2.png) [@ao\_fan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/ao_fan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/530 "2021-07-29T14:12:49Z")
Religious exemption is complete bullshit. What is a religion? What if my religion is the God of antivax? ---
**Author:** ![NormalDan](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/normaldan/32/1013_2.png) [@NormalDan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/NormalDan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/531 "2021-07-29T14:28:45Z")
Is that similar to the teapot religion? ---
**Author:** ![Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/marcie/32/8789_2.png) [@Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Marcie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:33pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/532 "2021-07-29T14:33:09Z")
The only RCT in cloth masks in a real life setting I see mentioned there is the 2015 Vietnamese medical workers, which showed cloth masks had significantly worse outcomes than either medical masks or the control group (which did include some masking). Note that this article was written when the CDC was still claiming spread through droplets, whereas today the main mode of transmission is acknowledged to be aerosols. ---
**Author:** ![Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/snikelfritz/32/5728_2.png) [@Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Snikelfritz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:36pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/533 "2021-07-29T14:36:53Z")
Here is the study that was referenced in the first quote [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24229526/) Results: The median-fit factor of the homemade masks was one-half that of the surgical masks. Both masks significantly reduced the number of microorganisms expelled by volunteers, although the surgical mask was 3 times more effective in blocking transmission than the homemade mask. ---
**Author:** ![Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/snikelfritz/32/5728_2.png) [@Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Snikelfritz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:40pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/534 "2021-07-29T14:40:11Z")
It appears as though most pre Covid studies done compared cloth to surgical to answer the question if surgical is better, not to see if cloth is better than nothing. But, they did still manage to conclude cloth is better than nothing. I’m in favour of a surgical mask mandate now that we have the supply. I have a sneaky suspicion Marcie would find something to complain about if that became a mandate given the focus of her posts is downplaying the risk of Covid and complaining about any measures taken to reduce that risk. ---
**Author:** ![Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/marcie/32/8789_2.png) [@Marcie](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Marcie)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/535 "2021-07-29T14:41:04Z")
I don’t really have time to keep swatting these down all day. ![Screenshot_20210729-093925](https://community.goactuary.com/uploads/default/original/2X/3/37e24f5ec69a6dcb5099f7e746390c5f9ab136f2.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![NormalDan](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/normaldan/32/1013_2.png) [@NormalDan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/NormalDan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:46pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/536 "2021-07-29T14:46:28Z")
In fairness I think she has kept her criticism to cloth masks, not surgical masks. And the mask mandates have never specified surgical masks. Certainly around me the vast majority of people masked are using cloth masks. ---
**Author:** ![Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/snikelfritz/32/5728_2.png) [@Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Snikelfritz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/537 "2021-07-29T14:48:37Z")
> [@Marcie](#): > > I don’t really have time to keep swatting these down all day. Good, looks like we agree that cloth masks are useful! ---
**Author:** ![Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/snikelfritz/32/5728_2.png) [@Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Snikelfritz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:50pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/538 "2021-07-29T14:50:18Z")
> [@NormalDan](#): > > she has kept her criticism to cloth masks, not surgical masks Disagree, she consistently argues that Covid is no big deal, that vaccines have issues, and that public health interventions are wrong. I’d be shocked if she’s not getting these talking points off another website somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![NormalDan](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/normaldan/32/1013_2.png) [@NormalDan](https://community.goactuary.com/u/NormalDan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/539 "2021-07-29T14:55:00Z")
> [@Snikelfritz](#): > > Disagree, she consistently argues that Covid is no big deal, that vaccines have issues, and that public health interventions are wrong. I’d be shocked if she’s not getting these talking points off another website somewhere. I think that’s a bit unfair. If anyone argues that COVID is anything less than a medicine/vaccine free smallpox-type pandemic they’re concluded to be some Trump nut. Clearly the last few posts don’t support your accusation… > [@Marcie](#): > > Actually, relaxing restrictions doesn’t always lead to higher case rates if > > 1. other forces (e.g. seasonality, vaccinations) are stronger; > [@Marcie](#): > > You got anything like this to support cloth face coverings in public? > [@Marcie](#): > > in cloth masks in a real life setting ---
**Author:** ![Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/snikelfritz/32/5728_2.png) [@Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Snikelfritz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/540 "2021-07-29T14:57:04Z")
> [@NormalDan](#): > > Clearly the last few posts don’t support your accusation… 🙄 look beyond the last few posts in one thread buddy. The poster consistently minimizes Covid and argues against preventative measures. ---
**Author:** ![Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/user_avatar/community.goactuary.com/snikelfritz/32/5728_2.png) [@Snikelfritz](https://community.goactuary.com/u/Snikelfritz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872/541 "2021-07-29T14:58:26Z")
> [@Marcie](#): > > So, how did you behave differently in 2018 to save the hospitals? Example of Marcie comparing Covid to flu a couple posts up in this thread, i.e. minimizing the risk of Covid. [Previous page](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872.md?page=26) [Next page](https://community.goactuary.com/t/have-we-rounded-the-corner-for-the-final-time/1872.md?page=28)