Future CAS exams to remain confidential

[meep]

[If you think taking math (and remembering it) is hard, try teaching it]

[John.S.Mill]

@meep

So you’re telling me that math (class) is hard.

Well, not quite, but also not the point I was making.
I think there are better things to memorize than the quadratic formula, that’s all. It’s not even a really elegant formula, tbh.

[SpaceLobster]

Proooo…duct rule?

[Lucy]

@act_123

She also pointed out that graders can’t change your answers and that they get a read-only copy of the file.

That’s too bad. That’s what they did with the computerized exam 5, and it made life much harder for graders. I wrote a long, careful letter about why they should let the graders use a writeable copy.

It’s sort of weird. Graders always wrote on the hardcopy, when we got paper files to grade. I get that you don’t want the only copy of a student’s work to be edited.

Maybe they’ll let the graders make their own writeable copy, though, and just require that they keep the original.

[Lucy]

@act_123

suggested writing out in the cells a string like Incurred = Case + Paid. So if you use the wrong cell for Paid by accident the graders know. I feel like for something so simplistic it should be a given that if you had an incorrect reference, that it was an incorrect reference.

Having graded, I completely agree with her on this point. Let the graders know you know something.

[act_123]

Thanks for the advice. I definitely appreciate your perspective.

[act_123]

Perhaps they will be able to export or save it in a new file where they can edit. I don’t know. Hopefully, they can.

[Ted_Hoffman]

I can’t wait for the first time someone talks about a question on a discussion forum - say, this one - and the CAS asks for information on the user. If the discussion forum says go pound sand, then is the CAS really going to send lawyers off to get a subpoena to get that information and wage a fight in court? It’s going to … what, ban the discussion forum from … ?

However, I had a different take when I heard that. I interpreted it to also mean “if you’re in the workplace and you hear some candidate discuss content on an exam after the exam period has closed, that is a violation of the Candidate Code of Conduct and should be reported and the candidate could face discipline.” I don’t know about anyone else, but if anyone thinks I’m going to hear a candidate mention something off an exam race off to a computer to pull up a form to report a violation,

[CuriousGeorge]

I can’t wait for the first time someone talks about a question on a discussion forum - say, this one - and the CAS asks for information on the user. If the discussion forum says go pound sand , then is the CAS really going to send lawyers off to get a subpoena to get that information and wage a fight in court?

Do you think GoActuary is going to tell them to go pound sand? Actuarial Outpost certainly didn’t.

[Vorian_Atreides]

You might be surprised what the moderators are likely to do WRT honoring stupid policies.

[Ted_Hoffman]

I think my question was hypothetical in nature.

Will this one? I don’t know, I don’t run the site. Will others? Again, I don’t know, I don’t run any other site.

My own personal opinion: if I’m running a site and it’s not a violation of law, I don’t hand over squat.

[Marcie]

@Lucy

That’s too bad. That’s what they did with the computerized exam 5, and it made life much harder for graders. I wrote a long, careful letter about why they should let the graders use a writeable copy.

It’s sort of weird. Graders always wrote on the hardcopy, when we got paper files to grade. I get that you don’t want the only copy of a student’s work to be edited.

Maybe they’ll let the graders make their own writeable copy, though, and just require that they keep the original.

As a grader, I may have marked all over the paper copy, but I don’t recall ever editing (or even having the ability to edit) the candidate’s work on that copy.

I understand not wanting graders to have the ability to edit candidates’ answers. I think a solution could be giving graders a blank editable copy of the question to play around with. I’ll be surprised if the graders don’t get that.

I’ve heard there’s a training for graders soon on the new system. I wonder if anyone can report afterward if this will be a feature of the new grading process?

[Lucy]

They did not give the graders editable anything for exam 5. Of course, that was the first time.

Also, I wrote all over the candidate’s paper. In one case, the candidate had horrible handwriting, and I actually traced over his text, trying to “feel” what he might have been trying to write.

They should obviously retain an original copy of the candidate’s work, and not let the grader change the only copy.

But there are two graders, the CAS retains a copy that could be reviewed if the graders somehow didn’t know for sure what the candidate wrote, and I think the benefits of easier and more accurate grading outweigh the risks that both graders will edit the candidate’s paper in the same way and therefore give that person the wrong grade.

I mean, if they are colluding and WANT to give someone the wrong grade, they could do that easily. It’s not as if anyone other than the grader ever looks at the copy distributed to the grader. And once the graders agree on a score, no one else ever looks at that question.

[CuriousGeorge]

@act_123

They also said on the call trial and error won’t get credit. I found this a bit weird. If you show how your trial and error works, that should be sufficient. There should be no reason to require you to use a quadratic equation to solve for an IRR or the missing Premium. When you can use functions like IRR or you just how the inputs = the outputs when determining the missing variable.

This concerned me, so I sent an e-mail to Bob Craver. Here is his response:

We appreciate the feedback. If you get the questions correct, then you will receive full credit for the questions regardless of how you come to the solution. For showing your work, you will just need to demonstrate that you understand the concepts and if you get the answer wrong you can still receive partial credit. Trial and error can be acceptable as long as you are demonstrating that you understand the material.