Yep.
The article I posted above about the Prius Prime plug in hybrid being the current greenest car illustrates this a bit.
Ah.
Unsurprisingly, Tesla is charging Ford EV owners differently than Tesla’s own EV owners. Looking at the costs at different charging stations in the US and Canada, it looks like Tesla is charging Ford EV owners about a 30% premium per kWh of charging at Superchargers on average.
That can get expensive really quickly.
Tesla offers a solution. Non-Tesla EV owners, like Ford’s EV owners, can pay a $13 per month Supercharging membership to pay the same price per kWh as Tesla owners:
I don’t see how. You have two engines, including an ICE engine, with all of the maintenance costs.
The vast majority of EVs coming out now have a range of at least 200 miles (even in the cold months), meaning you can stray as far as 100 miles from the nearest charger. At the start of last year there were 160,000 public EV chargers across the country, so there are very few places that are not covered. With the standardization of plugs (using the Tesla plug), the number of charging ports will grow rapidly.
PHEVs are yesterday’s technology. Their resale value will be very low in a few years. That combined with maintenance costs make them a poor investment.
A shitty one, yes. Lucy, I believe, has had experience with the Ford.
But, we’re talking about a Prius. That ICE is not being used half the time, so it will last longer, and the Electric engine needs very little maintenance. The batteries might need to be replaced, though (same as an EV), if one owns it long enough.
One thing that I just thought up: If you have a Plug-in Hybrid, and the ICE is not running half the time, but the odometer is counting all the miles, how do you know when it is time to change the ICE’s oil? Hoping the car has sensors and a notification, but that relies on an engineer who knows how to design the sensor that will last 300K miles.
I’d rather not change the oil twice as often as necessary. That shit’s expensive, too!
A car isn’t an investment, it’s consumption.
First, not sure if this is in response to due to the board’s software…
True, but the length of time it is being consumed and the value at the end of your consumption are important measures in decision-making.
I.e., "How much will Car #1 consume of my money vs Car #2?
Not strictly accurate.
A collectors car will will rise in value. And you can still drive it.
Yes, I should have used a better word. Let’s just say it’s a poor use of your money.
Fixed for accuracy.
And, resale value for my 20-year-old PHEV (if I ever get one) will be irrelevant.
I give it 5 years at most. Range anxiety (for anyone who’s actually driven an EV more than a couple of times) is a thing of the past. Every new model is getting faster at charging. Within a couple of years there should be several $20-25K EVs on the market (the Bolt is $26K after the rebate), especially now that some European carmakers are partnering with Chinese carmakers. Why would anyone buy a clunky used PHEV in 5 years time?
If we’re going to be pedantic, driving a collector auto is still consumption.
Its value shifts due to external reasons, and it might appreciate by more than you consume by driving it. But with fairly limited exceptions such as winning a race, driving a vehicle consumes it.
Fair enough.
I was being a bit pendantic, but I do think that a lot of these first generation electric cars will become collectors items in the future.
Have been discussing this with a co-worker recently, as we have a very good corporate program for buying/leasing an electric car.
As paperweights?
The real first gen car is a collectors item, as GM only leased them and then crushed almost all of them. They did make a few inoperable and donated them to car museums. Very few intact cars survived:
The Smithsonian has an EV1 on display, it’s really cool.
I can see the early Tesla roadsters being collectable, there weren’t many made and obviously Tesla is the trailblazer in the industry. And if you have a very early build for a Model S I suspect there could be some value there. Might cost a lot to replace the battery on that roadster though, I doubt many manufacturers will step up on that one.
Or you could try to LS swap that Tesla, lol.
these probably will be
From skimming the article, the EV1 took 1-3 hours to charge to 80% with a range of 80-100 miles back in 1999. Is that a reasonable baseline to measure the progress made through today?
The range improved a lot from the first version to the second version a couple years later.
The sidebar in the wiki page has links to the range using 2019 EPA standards and testing. First gen cars would get labeled with an EPA range of 55 miles today, and the second gen car would get labeled with a 105 mile range.
The original 1999 testing procedure would have set the respective ranges as 78mi and 142mi respectively.